newbie to the world of taping

[wwd65]

hello all. i;ve been a listener to all the hard work you kind folks put out over the years.jus like to say thanks.  l.m.archive is a kind place. well i'm looking recording live shows as a hobby. local bands to start with small clubs etc. then maybe hampton col. ive been doing a lil research on equipment and devices?? i thinking of puchasing the sony pcm-m-10 that seems to fit into my budget. i;m just wondering if this is a good place to start?? will the internal microphones handle the loudness of a club without lots of distortion?? i will get external mic's as budget permits how about this unit at outdoor shows?? will i need to add gain with this type of unit?? i also might have direct access to plug into one of the local bands soundboards is this the type of unit that could be used for that?? well thanks again guy's  any helpful tips,links,etc. will be gratefully appreciated wwd-65-95

[splumer]

Welcome! You've come to a great site. Everyone here is remarkably helpful and newbie-friendly. No question is stupid.

The consensus seems to be that the M10 is a good all-around recorder, though internal mics are rarely as good as even cheaper externals. Plus, the mere fact that keeping internal mics properly placed and being able to operate the controls of the recorder is a problem. Church Audio makes affordable, high-quality mics that everyone here recommends, plus Chris Church is a member here. You'll be able to connect to the board with the M10, as long as you have the right cables and connectors. A Y-cable with RCA's on one end and a stereo mini plug on the other is a good start, plus a pair of RCA > 1/4" adapters as well.

The best teacher, however, is experience. Once you get a recorder, experiment with it in the field, and if you can, borrow equipment from others to figure out what sounds best. It takes time, practice and experimentation, but taping is like sex: it takes time to get it right, but the practice is a heck of a lot of fun!

[wwd65]

  thanks splumer. the m-10 is where i'm gonna start.thanks for the recomendations on mic's gonna look into that also!! have a great day spumer.

[stevetoney]

The PCM-M10 is probably the most popular recorder on the market right now.  Great combination of features and price.  The internal mics perform quite well actually compared to the internals on other recorders and you'll get reasonable and coherent sound with them, although sound you'll probably grow weary of fairly quickly.  Since you're familiar with Live Music Archive, you've no doubt hear a wide variety of shows from good sounding to not-so-good sounding, so it probably won't be long before you can't live another day without upgrading to some external mics.  The yard sale is a great resource to buy from, and the mic and preamp forums are great places to read and learn from.  Be aware that our hobby is like a black hole...it sucks you in.  The famous last words are 'check your wallet at the door'.  Several years ago, I was a noob that said I was only interested in recording casually with modest equipment for the sake of getting my hands on shows that I wouldn't have a copy of otherwise.  Now I record a show or so a week and I'm in for way too much $$ in gear!  That said, you can get great sounding recordings for a reasonable investment of <$1K.  Many of us jump in with both feets (and hands and head and heart).  It's a completely fun hobby and you meet alot of great people, even if most of us are geeky nerdy music loving guys that get off seeing lights flashing to the beat while we wait around patiently until the last note is played.   

[Scooter123]

Some cheap externals would serve you well.  Unless you are right up front, the internals on most machines just plain suck.  I heard one concert from a Zoom which sounded OK, but I can't think of any recording I've heard with internals that was worth saving. 

I'd start checking the yard sale--my experience is that Church's are the best overall low to mid end mikes--add a cheap battery box and you are off and running. 

[stevetoney]

My M10 and I have been doing quite well on internals when I can pick the right opportunity.  Because the mics are omni in pattern they will tend to boom when lots of bass is present.  Knowing that alone will help you decide if an unobtrusive stage side table top in a jazz club will be just the ticket, or if you need to run externals and a battbox/preamp.  I'm in a spot now where I don't  record hardly at all any more and those few times I do, the M10 has left me happy all by its self.  Just a thought.

I agree 100%.  But as you know, there will be people respond to these two opinions saying internals suck no matter what, even though they've never even heard the internals on the M10 or the D50.     

I'm not saying the internals on these are great, but they give very acceptable results in a pinch and exceed the sound of many of the low end externals out there.

[bonghitwillie]

i have heard some great recordings with internals. i have also heard some bad ones.  imho, the best sound is closest to the source.  personally i like to put mics on stage.  the trick with that is to get an even mix.  they have to be near a stage monitor to get the vocals.  if you are in a large hall and cannot put mics on the stage, get as close to one side of the spkr stacks as possible.  if you are to close though, your internal mics might distort.  i use mics that allow me to get right up to the loudest spkrs without distortion.  the best advice is to play around with placement and record levels and learn from your results.  it is also better to under record to be safe than over record.  you can also eq and bring levels up in post production "fix it in post".

[acidjack]

As to soundboards, if you are talking about recording local bands, I would not invest a whole lot of time and energy in going that route.

Most SBDs at smaller venues are only going to give you a feed of vocals and keyboards and rarely will have the right mix that you want to actually listen to.  While having a soundboard patch can be useful if you have the ability to record with audience mics and take a board feed together, you won't be able to do that effectively with a single M10, and for someone starting out, that's a major pain in the ass.  I would take others' suggestions of getting some decent external mics that you're happy with and learning to get good recordings with those.  Once you're thoroughly hooked on taping and decide that you "need" more gear, then start worrying about adding SBD patches to the mix.... 

[DiggerinVA]

Well I see in your post that you mentioned the Hampton Col. I would guess that puts you in the Tidewater area. I live in W'burg and there are others who do record in the area. You have received some good advice so far. The places I frequent for live music are less than Ideal to say the least for recording. There are a couple of friends who I waited until they played Bay Days to record and we could do what ever we wanted (I really want that DR680). But who knows you may know better venues than I do. If I can help let me know.

[twatts]

Well I see in your post that you mentioned the Hampton Col. I would guess that puts you in the Tidewater area. I live in W'burg and there are others who do record in the area. You have received some good advice so far. The places I frequent for live music are less than Ideal to say the least for recording. There are a couple of friends who I waited until they played Bay Days to record and we could do what ever we wanted (I really want that DR680). But who knows you may know better venues than I do. If I can help let me know.

I think he meant Col. (Bruce) Hampton, which would put him near Athens, GA...

As for Noobies, I say welcome!!!  More tapers = more tapes!  I can't really go to shows anymore, so I rely on others for good tunes...

My Noobie recommendations/advise:

1) This hobby is ADDICTIVE!  Prepare to spend money, not because you "need" to, but because you "have" to! 
2) This hobby is about having a good time.  Don't sweat the small stuff, come home with a nice tape of what you heard.
3) Eventually getting an external preamp and mics is a good idea.  You can use the internals and get the good stuff, but externals will get you the good stuff more consistently...
4) A Church Audio system is a very good starting point, for a very good price.  The product is versatile, small, easy, and inexpensive.
5) You will eventually want to upgrade, GOTO #1.

I'm drunk and happy on Japanese food... 

Terry