Topic: Edirol R9 "improper song" > no data

[bonghitwillie]

i did a search on this topic and did not find anything helpful.  i have an 8g card.  when i check the data on the individual files it shows 0 bytes.  but the sd card info shows 4.6 remaining.  so there is data on the sdhc.  fwiw, i recorded one file at 44/16 with no problem and then switched to 24/48.  any help would be appreciated. 

[rhinowing]

you're able to copy/read them onto a pc? if so, open them up in audacity with the "import raw" function

[anonymous_user]

There was a similar topic a couple days ago where I posted this same advice, so here goes. Look at it with a PC and check the filesize. If it shows as a regular full-sized file, but will not play, then it should be easy to recover it. Go to the computer-related help board, and check out the Homegrown wave header repair utility thread. If your computer uses Windows, check out the utility in that thread first, and if that doesn't work, then you can try out some of the other methods posted such as different ways of importing as raw with Audacity. Just make multiple copies of the full-sized file first, and never work from the original copy or the only copy. Copy it to 3-4 different folders if necessary, and keep multiple copies until you're able to recover it in case something goes wrong in the process.

If it is instead a 0-byte file, it can still be possible to recover, but there are a variety of reasons and issues why it could be 0-bytes and it is a lot more tricky as to if you can recover it. Some people have had better luck than others. Do a search here for 0-byte files, and 'error file', and lost/recover files, and you'll find plenty of posts from people who have had luck doing it, and some who haven't. The number one thing with a 0-byte file is to never use the memory card again, or write anything to it at all, as you'll most likely just overwrite whatever data is on there.

[fmaderjr]

With an R-09 or R-09HR you have an easy fix. The built in repair function works flawlessly. Instead of trying to explain it myself, I searched and found this great explanation by Gutbucket.

Try the file repair function on the R-09.

Select the file in the list view by highlighting it and pressing record.
Scroll to the very bottom of the list of available functions (select, info, delete, rename, etc..).
If the file is damaged the 'repair' option will be present at the bottom of the list (you must scroll down to see it)
Select by pressing 'record' and the R-09 writes a new header for the file.

[anonymous_user]

Yes it does, but I'm not sure that would work with a 0-byte file. And I also wouldn't attempt using it on a full-sized file without first making a backup copy. You don't want to take a chance that the 1/100 time it doesn't work would be on your file and causes the unit to freeze or lockup or something, corrupting your file. As long as you always make a copy to your hdd first, then it's a great fix for a full-sized file.

And even if it could potentially work with a 0-byte file, I would still be very reluctant to even try it at all, because at that point you would be writing to the memory card, which could very easily overwrite the data and ruin any chances of retrieving your file. Kind of like recovering from a bad drive or recovering deleted files, the number one rule is to never write anything to it again or data will be overwritten. I would try all other possible methods first. Even after that I think I would still be hesitant to try it.

I wonder what caused the problem originally. Usually if power is lost, batteries run out, or the recorder is dropped on the ground or bumped, it results in a corrupt file-sized file with the R09/R09hr that just needs the header fixed. Usually 0-byte files are more likely to occur with other recorders.

[bonghitwillie]

i am back.  i do not see the repair option on my r9 v1.30.  i called edirol and they seemed to imply that only the hr has the repair funcation.  the guy at edirol actually loaded v1.31 onto his r9 and the repair option did not show up.  does the r9 not have the repair option?  i did not drop the unit.  in fact (knock on wood) i have never dropped it.  i have recorded something earlier at 44/16 and then went to another event and recorded at 48/24.  i was stealthing at the 2nd event, so i could not watch what was going on.  the show was less than 2 hrs.  somehow i got two 0-byte files out of it.  the batteries were a little low, but when the show was over the unit was still on.  now that i think about it, i did move through people at one point and the unit might have bumped someone (it was in my pocket).  maybe that explains the two files.  also, at one point a couple of months ago i could not format this sandisk sdhc card on my r9.  i put it in my zoom h2 and that unit formatted the card.  i then formatted it with the r9.  maybe that is an issue. 

i am not dos savy, so i am having trouble with the header re writing option.  i did a chkdsk/f and that did not work.  i tried autohck, i do not think that worked.  i did a microsoft os disk test and repair (not sure was that is called) and that wrote a copy of my 44/16 to another earlier track that had little data. i then made a backup on my pc.  there is still about 2 gig more on the sdhc card than what the individual files show.  could anyone give a real novice a how to on header fixing?  all in all, i record a lot of shows.  i listen to them a couple of times immediately afterwards,  then they sit on the hd.  if i lose it, that's life.  but it would be nice to fix it. 

[fmaderjr]

Anonymous user-It's a shame not not to take advantage of the repair function because it works so easily. If your are worried, make a backup copy of the file first. I don't even bother-nobody has ever reported it trashing a file. It does work on 0 byte files.

Willie-it is on all versions of the R-09. It is described on page 70 of the manual. It may not work if you have already altered the file though.

[anonymous_user]

You can't make a backup copy of a 0-byte file, there's nothing to backup, since the actual data is stuck on the card without a file attached to it. If you copy it to another drive, it will just be a true 0-byte file and there won't be any other data copied over. Just an empty file. I don't believe the repair function would ever work on a 0-byte file, and I've never heard of anyone who has used it in such a case, but common sense suggests that it would be much more of a risk than it's worth, since there's a solid chance of recovering a 0-byte file as long as the card is *not* written to again, which is what would happen if you tried the repair function. Furthermore, it's not common at all for an R09 to even get a 0-byte file. The repair function is intended for use when something goes wrong with the recorder itself, ie power is lost or the recorder crashes, locks up, or shuts off, and thus the header wasn't written when recording was finished and the file was completed. What happened to him was a memory card problem, the unit was still on afterwards so it wasn't an issue of not being able to write a header. It's more of a disk error than a header error, if it was just the header than it would be a full-sized file that would not play, instead of an empty 0-byte file with the rest of the data still somewhere else on the card.

Also, for the record I never said I was worried, I simply stated the facts, and said what everyone on this board also says, which is to always make backup copies of anything you're trying to repair or recover, and to *never* attempt to recover a file from your one and only copy. Anything else would be a bad idea. The first thing in my post was "yes it does". I've used the repair function more than once and I've never had a problem.

[bonghitwillie]

i did copy the card to my pc hd.  the hd showed the same file sizes as my card.  when i check the properties of the card, the size is about 2g larger than what individual files add up to, so the data is on there somewhere. 

[bonghitwillie]

my r9 v 1.30 does not have the repair function.  i called edirol and the dude said it is only on the r9hr.  i went to the website and looked at the manual for the r9 and it is right there on page 70.  i found my manual and it is also on page 70.  i called the dude at edirol up again and he was no help.  any idea why i cannot get to the repair function?  thank you

[fmaderjr]

I never thought of it before, but as gutbucket said, the repair function only shows up if you have selected a repairable file. Is it possible that you changed the file in some way so that the R-09 can't repair it?

The file is repairable, follow gutbucket's instructions and scroll down the menu until you get to 7-Repair.

If that doesn't work I guess the file is no longer repairable. If that happens, if you want to you can confirm that the function will repair a repairable file by creating one. Create a repairable file by recording a few seconds of anything and then pull out one of the R-09's batteries while it is recording. You will get a file that won't play but which can be repaired with the repair function.

[bonghitwillie]

thx for all the help.  i guess i am f'd. i used another sdhc card in my r9 that has the rubber shock protecter around the unit.  i tapped the unit pretty hard while recording and the unit keep going with no problems.  i also pushed on the battery door.  then i opened the battery door while recording so that the unit would stop recording.  when i powered back up, i was able to get the repair item in the menu and supposidly fixed the problem.  so whatever my problem is, it is larger than a simple fix.

[fmaderjr]

Sorry to hear that....

[live2496]

If you did a chkdsk /f on the media and the size did not change from 0 bytes then the file may not be recoverable.

It's possible that there are clusters out there on the media that have parts of your recording, but there is no way to logically put them all together. There are some "forensic" utilities that might go out there and find a cluster that it thinks is associated with your file, but it likely will not know the order that the pieces need to be put together.

If and when chkdsk can do this it's because the file allocation table is corrupted and it can repair it. It is what points to the various clusters on the media and knows the order that they were written and which ones belong to your file.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to fix your file. I think though at this point its impractical to try to fix it.

Also, I guess I should mention that when you have a 0 byte file, you don't want anymore data written to the media at that point. Chkdsk needs to be run at that time. Otherwise clusters get overwritten with new data.

[PhilG]

I had the same kind of issue recently with a file on my iRiver that was not properly shut down. However it was showing a file size of approx. 850Mb but there was no way to open it with any of my players. I tried to recover it with my Edirol R-09HR using the repair function but it did not work either. Finally I have imported the raw file with Audacity and I was really happy when the wave popped up on the screen.

Phil