Best Preamp for a Neumann SKM184 > ? > Sony PCM D50 setup

[JasonSobel]

the V2 is an analog pre-amp.  the V3 has the AD built in the unit
a

I assume AD means Analog/Digital.. How critical is that for a KM184 > pre > D50 configuration..  As a newbie is it worth the extra 300 or 400 to go that route?  Or will I get everything I need from a V2. 

Opinions welcome.  thanks

your assumption is correct, the V3 is a pre-amp and an A/D converter, while the V2 is just a pre-amp.  If you get the V2, you'll be relying on the internal A/D in the D50 (which a lot of people are quite happy with).  If you get the V3, you have the option of running optical S/PDIF from the V3 to the D50 (using the V3's A/D converter), or using the V3's analog outputs and using the D50's A/D converter.

at that point, it all comes down to personal preference...  which do you prefer, the V3's A/D or the D50's A/D.  look around the archive for samples.  there are tons of samples of with the km184 > V3 combo (look for Club d'Elf from 2003-2005 for my recordings with that combo).  I'm sure you could also find some V2 > D50 combo recordings on there as well.

[page]

the V2 is an analog pre-amp.  the V3 has the AD built in the unit
a

I assume AD means Analog/Digital.. How critical is that for a KM184 > pre > D50 configuration..  As a newbie is it worth the extra 300 or 400 to go that route?  Or will I get everything I need from a V2. 

Opinions welcome.  thanks

If I were in your shoes and cash was a limitation, I wouldn't sweat it and would look for an analog pre-amp I was happy with. You can always sell the V2 at a slight hit and save up some cash for the V3 if you like the AD sound it has.

[illconditioned]

The preamp in the D50 is excellent, both at loud and quiet levels.

You could therefore just get a phantom power supply.  These are often marketed to people who want to use XLR mics with video cameras.  You should be able to get something like that here (used) for $100.  I've built my own unit, but that needs a bit more initiative...

  Richard

[sparkey]

the V2 is an analog pre-amp.  the V3 has the AD built in the unit
a

I assume AD means Analog/Digital.. How critical is that for a KM184 > pre > D50 configuration..  As a newbie is it worth the extra 300 or 400 to go that route?  Or will I get everything I need from a V2. 

Opinions welcome.  thanks

If I were in your shoes and cash was a limitation, I wouldn't sweat it and would look for an analog pre-amp I was happy with. You can always sell the V2 at a slight hit and save up some cash for the V3 if you like the AD sound it has.

In the signal chain, the A>D affects the sound the least.  Mics the most, followed by your preamp, then the A>D, then cables.

[JasonSobel]

In the signal chain, the A>D affects the sound the least.  Mics the most, followed by your preamp, then the A>D, then cables.

I agree with the order of importance in your second sentence.  Doesn't that then make the A>D the 2nd to last, not the last

[Myco]

i personally really like the oade pre's with the neumann 184's...............especially the m148
a

I agree with this post. The Neumann's tend towards the brighter spectrum, so I'd look to add some warmth through the pre-amp.
The Oade M148, Aerco MP-2, or Sound Device MP-2 would be my recommendations.

[sparkey]

In the signal chain, the A>D affects the sound the least.  Mics the most, followed by your preamp, then the A>D, then cables.

I agree with the order of importance in your second sentence.  Doesn't that then make the A>D the 2nd to last, not the last

I can't be held accountable for my statements that late on a Saturday night

[Big Perm]

What about the Wendt x2? Great sounding small unit. I like it with neumanns. It is also very affordable $350ish.... There is one in the yard sale right now (no affiliation)
a

[sunjan]

The Wendt X2, SD MP2 and AD1000 in the YS are all in the same price range, $300-350:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141314.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141193.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140591.0

Don't know which one of these are the best match with Neumann's. Perhaps you might be able to go digi-in with the AD1000, don't know if it is compatible with the D50 though?
Portability might be a factor to consider too. These are bulky rigs, compared to a Tinybox or a basic PS-2.

[Fitz]

In the case of this setup bulk is not a primay concern.  Eventually I will pick up a stealth rig and will need to look at battery boxes etc..
By the way, thanks for posting the hyperlinks to the YS I looked at those as well and currently have a lead on a lightly used V2 that I hope to get for the right price.

[sparkey]

MP2 still has support from Sound Devices...I don't believe Apogee will fix your AD1000 if it breaks.

The Wendt X2, SD MP2 and AD1000 in the YS are all in the same price range, $300-350:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141314.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141193.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140591.0

Don't know which one of these are the best match with Neumann's. Perhaps you might be able to go digi-in with the AD1000, don't know if it is compatible with the D50 though?
Portability might be a factor to consider too. These are bulky rigs, compared to a Tinybox or a basic PS-2.

[taperj]

 I was the one who had mentioned to Fitz that the km184's have a hot output stage and to make sure he had enough padding on his rig to deal with it. I mention this to most everyone who asks because the day I got my Mixpre I ran out and plugged it in to my 184's and MR-1 and went into a loud show(New Mastersounds), and got blown out, bigtime. I have to run -20dB inline pads before the Mixpre to tone it down. Yes, this is ultimately an issue with what the MR-1 can handle signal wise, I might have been able to get away with running off the tape out on the mixpre(doubtful though), but I still feel it's a valid warning because in the whole chain it's something that needs to be thought of, and can really ruin your night out, especially for someone who is new to mics. I feel it's especially precarious when you don't have an on-mic attenuator to fall back on, and your pre has no switchable pads. As for preamp choices, Mixpre/MP-2 sound great with the 184's, I ran a V3 with them at the Greek this summer which I thought was very nice as well, currently I'm listening to one of my sources from Deer Creek this year with 184's > UA-5 and it sounds very good as well, although perhaps not as beefy or complex as the Mixpre or V3, it's still quite listenable. I think everything that's been suggested in this thread for a pre for these mics has been thoughtful and right on the money. On a side note... Anyone ever run a Portico with 184's? Wondering how that might sound.
Good luck Fitz, post what you end up with!
J

[page]

I was the one who had mentioned to Fitz that the km184's have a hot output stage and to make sure he had enough padding on his rig to deal with it. I mention this to most everyone who asks because the day I got my Mixpre I ran out and plugged it in to my 184's and MR-1 and went into a loud show(New Mastersounds), and got blown out, bigtime.

I knew I'd heard that somewhere else.  Now I remember, it was while we were waiting for the sun to go down one afternoon, maybe Sunday after the acoustic set.

I have to run -20dB inline pads before the Mixpre to tone it down. Yes, this is ultimately an issue with what the MR-1 can handle signal wise, I might have been able to get away with running off the tape out on the mixpre(doubtful though), but I still feel it's a valid warning because in the whole chain it's something that needs to be thought of, and can really ruin your night out, especially for someone who is new to mics.

I concur, gotta think about what's going on and where. (and yes, from experience, it's the MR-1 that is the limitation).

The tape out on the mixpre should be a consumer signal, it says the tape output clips at +11 while the xlrs clip at like +20. It may not solve your problem necessarily, but it might give you the option to run without the attenuators. Feeding it a weak tone signal, I bet the tape output is about 10db cooler. Food for thought is all.

I feel it's especially precarious when you don't have an on-mic attenuator to fall back on, and your pre has no switchable pads. As for preamp choices, Mixpre/MP-2 sound great with the 184's, I ran a V3 with them at the Greek this summer which I thought was very nice as well, currently I'm listening to one of my sources from Deer Creek this year with 184's > UA-5 and it sounds very good as well, although perhaps not as beefy or complex as the Mixpre or V3, it's still quite listenable. I think everything that's been suggested in this thread for a pre for these mics has been thoughtful and right on the money. On a side note... Anyone ever run a Portico with 184's? Wondering how that might sound.

I dug up the specs for the D50 (cause I'm looking at one) and it has comparable specs to the M10 which is in that pro +4dbu input signal tolerance. The ADC caves at like +24dbu or something like that so I think he'll be ok. I can't remember the exact number, but it's real close to what the 722 can tolerate.

Whatever Fitz chooses, I suspect he'll be happy. 

[taperj]

I knew I'd heard that somewhere else.  Now I remember, it was while we were waiting for the sun to go down one afternoon, maybe Sunday after the acoustic set.

Yep, I do believe we discussed that out at Festival 8 page, good memory

The tape out on the mixpre should be a consumer signal, it says the tape output clips at +11 while the xlrs clip at like +20. It may not solve your problem necessarily, but it might give you the option to run without the attenuators. Feeding it a weak tone signal, I bet the tape output is about 10db cooler. Food for thought is all.

Yeah, I had thought about the tape out as I had mentioned but since the MR-1 is fairly unique in that it has 2 balanced 1/8" ins as opposed to a single stereo mini input I would have had to get a new cable to run off of it. At the time I just went with the attenuators since I had them and they proved to work fine. My MR-1 finally died after rolling about 200 shows a few weeks ago so it's now a moot point for me.

Whatever Fitz chooses, I suspect he'll be happy. 

Agreed.

[jbell]

What deck are you planning on replacing the MR1 with?

I knew I'd heard that somewhere else.  Now I remember, it was while we were waiting for the sun to go down one afternoon, maybe Sunday after the acoustic set.

Yep, I do believe we discussed that out at Festival 8 page, good memory

The tape out on the mixpre should be a consumer signal, it says the tape output clips at +11 while the xlrs clip at like +20. It may not solve your problem necessarily, but it might give you the option to run without the attenuators. Feeding it a weak tone signal, I bet the tape output is about 10db cooler. Food for thought is all.

Yeah, I had thought about the tape out as I had mentioned but since the MR-1 is fairly unique in that it has 2 balanced 1/8" ins as opposed to a single stereo mini input I would have had to get a new cable to run off of it. At the time I just went with the attenuators since I had them and they proved to work fine. My MR-1 finally died after rolling about 200 shows a few weeks ago so it's now a moot point for me.

Whatever Fitz chooses, I suspect he'll be happy. 

Agreed.