AKG Active Project part 4

[hi and lo]

There are already at least one other person who has succeeded in creating an active solution other than Jon of JKLabs.   His comment to me was that everyone wants them but no one is willing to absorb the initial cost.  Can't I say I blame Jon (Naiant) for deferring this project.    Heck the AKG community can't even come to a consensus as to what they actually want other than a generic 'i want actives' answer. 


Of the 7 previous posters who have said they're in, how many of you would send Jon money now sight unseen to help him finance the work?

i already have said i would be willing to send money in advance if i had a ballpark amount thats was worth it, we knew it was going to go somewhere, and do i get a cut of the profits after?
i am not investing money for something that will end up not being cost effective or not going to come to life at all and so someone else can sit back and collect all the money after the fact - imo those are simple business practices

I don't mean to be condescending in the slightest, but every single word that came after "I already said I would be willing to send money..." completely invalidated everything. Perhaps I can help to convince why it would be worth making the investment.

First, the price is going to be the cost of a Tinybox plus $600, to be extra conservative, for the active cables; I'm using that figure because it's roughly the cost of nbox cables which are well worth that price. Are you will to pay $800 for something that Jon has a known to be working prototype for? I don't personally think the cost of the active cables will anything near $600. Jon could charge a lot more than he does for his preamps; they are incredibly feature rich, yet his prices are very reasonable. I have no idea what the cost of his active cable solution will ultimately be, but I would put down $800 in a heartbeat for a good AKG active solution (assuming I already had caps). To me, that is an incredibly cost effective solution, not even considering the strong desire expressed of 4 threads of posts on this board.

Second, you are seeking a sophisticated, custom solution that is not otherwise available. You may have to pay a premium and you may also have to be a bit of a guinea pig; worrying about business practices in this situation is a luxury, if not entirely a pipe dream.

Finally, I can personally attest to the quality of Jon's work and have complete confidence the solution will come to life. As mentioned earlier, there is already a known working prototype and this is not a high risk investment. Jon will not take your order unless he is confident he can deliver to you a product of the highest quality, so with all this said... it's really time to step up to the plate!

[illconditioned]

I don't see how developing a prototype AKG/collette is any different than any other protype, like the Tinybox.  Or like Busman's actives.  You have an upfront cost, but you expect to sell a certain number of units.  If the problem really is the upfront cost, do what Chris Church does and get payment for a certain # of units in advance.

As for more complicated deals, such as sharing of equity/future sales, that is just too complicated, and not really fair fo Jon I would think.  As long as one person has the technical ability, and the finances, there is no need to share the profit.

I think the first step is for Jon to come forward and tell us the approximate cost (with and without a suitable box to connect it to), and a minimum initial # of pre sales, if required, to make it happen.

Until that happens, this can be considered "vaporware", or better yet "maybe-ware".  We all know it is technically possible, but it is just not happening yet.  I really hope it happens, and I honestly thought Jon was moving forward with it, but now I have my doubts.

Of course this is no reflection on Jon or his other business.  He ultimately has the choice of how to proceed.

  Richard

[Hypnocracy]

What is required for Jon's AKG Active? If you have what is required to run a microphone with Phantom Power...these are the items I know that are required for a PFA type solution that is previewed a few pages back:

Naiant PFA (If I read it correctly the price is $79 for Stereo Multi pin Mini XLR to 2 XLR mono PFA's)
Cable
Binder connections
Colette
Jon's stuffed board that fits inside Colette
Assembly

Personally I don't see the cost anywhere near $800, $600 or $500...that looks more in the $200 range to me...but that is just a guess...if you desire a TBox that would up the cost as you are now paying for a Preamp in addition to the active cable-Colette.

Initially Jon has said he had no desire to do the metal work and has personally told me that he would supply stuffed boards for the Colette...the door is wide open for someone with skills on a soldering iron and the Items above....

So...see how far we have to go...it is very close to happening....I had hoped for good will among the AKG TS members to come together and machine an initial batch of Colette's to birth this baby....and help out someone whom has been a resource of knowledge and cool equipment for our hobby

OK...back to the question below...

What do we think about approaching Jon for specs on the colettes and have 8 sets made (one for Jon as good will) start making recordings and build some interest?

We can firm up costs on Jon's side and put out a request for quotes on machining the first 16 Colette's....everything will be above board and ACTUAL cost (no profiting on our machining of Colette's allowed) will be shown to each of us...I think you may come out with a lower cash outlay than those who follow us to AKG ACTIVE HEAVEN...

Of the 7 members whom have shown interest would you pay up front for 1/2 of the Colette machining cost...NOT THE FINAL BUILD COST...once they are machined pay the other half an we ship them to Jon to be built...you deal with Jon on the final build to your specs and pay him the balance...that is If Jon would do this for us I guess...

Who is a lawyer and can draw up the papers....

I'm totally open to suggestions and corrections on this theory too...

[bryonsos]

Pending a cost estimate, I would be wiling to pick up some CK-61s and invest in making the collettes happen.

[johnmuge]

I would have no problem sending Jon $ for a product sight unseen.  Naiant products have proven themselves as a great product at a great value.  All Jon would have to do is ask and a check would be in the mail.

[Chuck]

I'll pay up front. Let's make this happen.

[willndmb]

just to be clear
i support jon and/or anyone else in this effort and i an fully aware of the quality of his products

my earlier statements i am not knocking jon or anyone else
but i stand by what i said and still think they are simple business practices, and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact

moving on, what is there to getting collettes made? my uncle machines stuff all the time and might be willing to help out

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Initially Jon has said he had no desire to do the metal work and has personally told me that he would supply stuffed boards for the Colette...the door is wide open for someone with skills on a soldering iron and the Items above....

I've been waiting on stuffed boards for the Gefell actives since late june, when it seemed they were done.

And I think your cost estimates are wildly unrealistic.    Development work, integration and testing all take significant time.  Time is money.  Plus there is the investment in inventory, and in components that may not ultimately work out and their cost must be absorbed.  It is so much easier to copy someone else's hard work.  The simplest designs are often the result of the most thought and time.

It's so easy to wave your hands and talk about this stuff.  Talk is cheap.

[Hypnocracy]

I've been waiting on stuffed boards for the Gefell actives since late june, when it seemed they were done.

......

It's so easy to wave your hands and talk about this stuff.  Talk is cheap.

FOR THE RECORD I DO NOT DESIRE TO STEP ON ANYONE'S DREAM OR LIVELYHOOD...

Eleven...wasn't aware there was a hold up on the stuffed boards...that is bad news...and I did qualify what I thought the cost to be was a guess...I'll look for what Jon has said on cost estimates...Somewhere I recall him speaking about it...

'willndmb...show your uncle a AKG Body and a mockup pictures of a Active...ask if supplied the tap for the threads what would something like this cost for 20...




I think there may be a slot cut out on the inside to hold the board in place also to consider as a milling operation

Finish can be black using Gun Blue...if they are made out of Brass...I would be happy to help with that part...

[hi and lo]

...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact

Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.

[newplanet7]

Bottom line is, I think people just want to know what's up.
There was an initial date and then a secondary date and further talk of prototypes
in Jons other threads by Jon.

[F.O.Bean]

I would probably throw down on a pair of ck62's for the active setup. That way I could save MUCHO DINERO compared to buying Schoeps MK2S's

[page]

...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact

Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.

I agree to some extent. I've asked for odd stuff from vendors before and been willing to either front parts, cash, time or any combination. Yes, it costs me more then it does anyone else later, but 1) I get said object I'm after and often times 2) I get it first. Beta testing stuff after you've paid for it isn't particularly fun, but thats the trade off. If you want it bad enough, you pay to play.

Has anyone actually asked Jon what sort of cash and time it would take to bump it up in the priority structure?

[willndmb]

...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact

Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.

I agree to some extent. I've asked for odd stuff from vendors before and been willing to either front parts, cash, time or any combination. Yes, it costs me more then it does anyone else later, but 1) I get said object I'm after and often times 2) I get it first. Beta testing stuff after you've paid for it isn't particularly fun, but thats the trade off. If you want it bad enough, you pay to play.

Has anyone actually asked Jon what sort of cash and time it would take to bump it up in the priority structure?

which is exactly my point - thats backwords in a typical business set up
why would i pay more for something that might not work and be the test rat, then after it is all said and done others get a working product for less
normally you would pay less because there is no guarantee it will work, in exchange for your time/money investment

i have asked in threads a few times about a ballpark cost but never direct via email/pm

[larrysellers]

Not trying to compete as I'm not doing a ck91 mod, but my ck6x coupling will probably be $99 including the (mono) PFA.  I am not doing the metalwork though, I will hire that out, which will run in the $10-$15 range per unit, depending on volume.  I also hire out powdercoating, which costs me about $0.50/unit.

Keep in mind that this is from last April but it does give an idea of the expected cost.