newbie to dat recording

[Jimna]

ive been using mini discs for about 3 to 4 yrs, and just purchased a pcm-m1 and an active 7 pin cable.  when i went to buy blanks i realized that i dont know enough to buy the correct size.  ive had no luck finding any help here either.  does lp mode recording cause sound loss like it does in mini discs?  how long does each size tape give me to record?  any other advice on dat recording, media, and editing would be cool.  thanks

[leegeddy]

ive been using mini discs for about 3 to 4 yrs, and just purchased a pcm-m1 and an active 7 pin cable.  when i went to buy blanks i realized that i dont know enough to buy the correct size.  ive had no luck finding any help here either.  does lp mode recording cause sound loss like it does in mini discs?  how long does each size tape give me to record?  any other advice on dat recording, media, and editing would be cool.  thanks

+t for the MD > DAT upgrade.  

many folks use computer DDS grade tapes (which are measured in "meters".  

60m tape will provide you with 120minutes of recording. 90m will give you 180minutes.

i've always liked the service and price from http://www.am-dig.com (American Digital) in NJ.  i'd recommend the Sony 60P (60m) and the 90P (90m) tapes.

>>does lp mode recording cause sound loss like it does in mini discs?

yes, but it's not like the lp mode on a MD.  although freq. response is reduced, you can still record in stereo and double the recording length of a tape.

marc

[Brian Skalinder]

yes, but it's not like the lp mode on a MD.  although freq. response is reduced, you can still record in stereo and double the recording length of a tape.

But just because you can, doesn't mean you should.    IMO, stay away from LP.

[leegeddy]

yes, but it's not like the lp mode on a MD.  although freq. response is reduced, you can still record in stereo and double the recording length of a tape.

But just because you can, doesn't mean you should.    IMO, stay away from LP.

bri; i agree w/ you on the principle.  however, i've used the LP mode when recording from a sbd for local tribute bands in my area.  these sbd are used for matrixing with my AUD tapes and i find that using LP mode: 1) saves tapes since i record the opening band(s)/headliner on most occasions; and 2) sbd outs have a limited freq. range.

marc

[Jimna]

so is a 60 meter tape giving me 120 min of recording time in lp mode or not?  whats the differetial from regular to lp mode as to each tape.  i saw 125 meter tapes too, whats that translate to in time?
so when im looking for blanks im having 1 major set back, they all (brand names) use different ways of listing there media and none show or indicate the length of recording time in either mode.  a select few did indicate lenght in meters, but are they the only type i can confidently buy and know my recording time?  
also i know the pcm-m1 is very common, anyone have advice on settings for levels, or anything else from a digital source?(my pre-amp)

[Brian Skalinder]

so is a 60 meter tape giving me 120 min of recording time in lp mode or not?  whats the differetial from regular to lp mode as to each tape.

A 60M tape will give you ~2 hrs at either 44.1kHz or 48kHz.  LP (32kHz) will get you ~25% longer.

i saw 125 meter tapes too, whats that translate to in time?

Depends on your sample rate: 44.1, 48, or 32 (LP).  For 44.1/48, 1 meter = ~2 minutes.

so when im looking for blanks im having 1 major set back, they all (brand names) use different ways of listing there media and none show or indicate the length of recording time in either mode.  a select few did indicate lenght in meters, but are they the only type i can confidently buy and know my recording time?

If you're going to use DDS instead of audio DAT, best bet IMO is Maxell HS/4 60m and 90m.  Some folks like the Sony DGP series, too.  Can't speak to audio DAT or other DDS as I haven't used them.

also i know the pcm-m1 is very common, anyone have advice on settings for levels, or anything else from a digital source?(my pre-amp)

FWIW, your preamp is an analog source, not digital.  Your M1 will be performing the analog-to-digital conversion.  Set the M1 rec level knob around 7 and set your preamp so the M1 levels are a little below 0.  Then fine-tune with the M1 rec level knob.  (Signals registering above 0 on the level meters risk clipping, which doesn't sound real good.)

[Jimna]

first of all, thanks for a well written, to the point  explanation.  but why do you say that my pre-amp is analog?  its deneake ad20.  its outs are dig/ optical or dig/ coax.  thats all, no other outs exist.  it is (according to the manual it came with) an analog/ digital converter.  all this in mind would i still want to set my levels in the same region you indicated before?  this forum rocks!  everyone involved is the salt of the earth as my grandma would say.  

[Brian Skalinder]

first of all, thanks for a well written, to the point  explanation.  but why do you say that my pre-amp is analog?  its deneake ad20.  its outs are dig/ optical or dig/ coax.

Your preamp IS analog.  But it just so happens the AD20 also has an ADC as part of the package.  The AD20 has pre and ADC in one box.    What mics are you running?

all this in mind would i still want to set my levels in the same region you indicated before?

Yup.

[Jimna]

i see, im running the sennheiser k6 system.  the me 64's this time of yr

[leegeddy]

so is a 60 meter tape giving me 120 min of recording time in lp mode or not?  whats the differetial from regular to lp mode as to each tape.  i saw 125 meter tapes too, whats that translate to in time?
so when im looking for blanks im having 1 major set back, they all (brand names) use different ways of listing there media and none show or indicate the length of recording time in either mode.  a select few did indicate lenght in meters, but are they the only type i can confidently buy and know my recording time?  
also i know the pcm-m1 is very common, anyone have advice on settings for levels, or anything else from a digital source?(my pre-amp)

>>i saw 125 meter tapes too, whats that translate to in time?

you *probably* saw a 125 minute DAT tape.  all tapes with the "DAT" logo is measured in minutes.  all tapes with the logo "DDS" is measured in physical length (meters).

marc

[nic]

"LP (32kHz) will get you ~25% longer."

dont know where you got this from...LP mode is double length.
if using a 60meter(or 120minute) tape in LP mode you will get 4hours, not 2.5 hours

[Brian Skalinder]

From an Archival Info forum post the head honcho made a while back:

Bit-Depth    Sample Rate kHz     MB per Track-Minute
16                  44.1         5.0
16                  48.0         5.5

So, a 44.1 kHz recording is ~8.13% smaller than a 48 kHz recording.  (44.1/48)
If LP mode is, in fact, 32 kHz, then a LP recording would be 2/3 (32/48) the size of a 48k recording.  So yeah, my number was wrong - should've been ~33% longer, not 25%.

Perhaps my assumption that LP mode is 32 kHz is the problem (I thought that was correct, but maybe not)?  Or maybe I'm not understanding the relationship between sample rates and recording length?

Confused...  

How'd you come up with double length?

[nic]

LP mode is at 32K, but the tape transport spins at half speed

[Brian Skalinder]

LP mode is at 32K, but the tape transport spins at half speed

Ahhhhhh...okay.  Thanks, Luvean!  +T

[Jimna]

so how much is lost by the tape transfer spinning at half speed?