Topic: Have one month to get equipment...what do I get?

[Ray]

Hello,
I'm a complete newbie to taping though I've been in the trading scene for a couple years so far.  I taped one time before (on a digicam), and it ended out terrible.  While I didn't like the band so much, I recorded about an hour's worth of video and the camera just stopped recording.  I only managed to capture the encore.  The camera said the data was on the SD card, various data recovery programs said otherwise.

Off that topic, I'm looking to do audio recording for now, and probably won't buy another camcorder (that isn't a digicam) for a few years.  I'm looking for something in the "dirt cheap" category, so I did some looking around and found the zoom H2.  It has the ability for external mics (which I want to get as well), and seems quite cheap (and I have used other Zoom equipment in the past).  Most of the taping I'll be doing will be stealth (if I get the external mics), though the local venue has a good sound system and places where I can stealth, yet still have the recorder out (if I'm not getting external mics) to get a good sound.

(note: the picture is set up like it's a jazz cafe.  I can assure you that I have never seen the chairs and stools in use, as there is usually widespread moshing)
2 is where I was for one show, i could have a recorder in my hand while I pretend to grab onto the railing.
1 is where I usually am, i could just have the recorder on the bar, but might get the noise of people asking for drinks.

Now for the questions.
I already have (2) 4GB SDHC cards, though if I'm recording in 14/44, how long will each card last?  Should I buy another (I usually go to 1 concert a month, though next month may be as many as 4)?
What kind of (cheap!) external mics should I get (if any)?
Should I get the Zoom h2?
The first concert I plan to tape will be a metal show at the club above, second will be a classic rock band at an outdoor setting.  Tips for either?

Thanks!

[rhinowing]

I'd look into getting something like a PCM-M10 and Church Audio mics. Will be a versatile setup for under $500...you should also check out the stickies in this forum, lots of good information there for someone like yourself who's just getting started taping

[SmokinJoe]

If you want it by a particular point in time, you have to buy it from someone who actually has it in hand.  Web stores sometimes sell out and put you on back order, and Chris Church is frequently backed up.  If you can buy it used from the yard sale, you know someone has it on hand.  There are almost always some Church Audio mics in the yard sale, it's hard to go wrong with those.

A few people here use a Zoom H2, not too many.  A lot more use Sony M10 or Edirol R09/R09HR.  Zoom H2's are actually popular with a lot of musicians.  Nothing fancy but it works.

If it's loud music (and moshing probably means loud) you almost surely want a battery box to go with whatever mics you choose.  The H2 probably puts out about 3 V which can power mics for quiet stuff, but they will overload for loud stuff.  9V in a battery box will allow your mics to tolerate louder music.

[acidjack]

^^ What Joe said

You need external mics, and I would not buy the H2.  People who do video and get SBD feeds frequently like the H4N because it can take an XLR board feed, and these jokers usually go on to make screwed-up sounding, bad recordings with that rig.  (I have a particular antipathy for this setup because at half the local shows I go to I run into an idiot trying to snag the sbd feed who runs one of these, who I then have to convice that, yes, my actual pro audio gear is better and probably ought to get the SBD feed instead of someone who doesn't know what they're doing....but I digress).

To do quality audio these days, esp if you MAY get back into video, I'd go with a Tascam DR2D, which can do 4-channels and therefore take a board feed if you can score one.  If you don't care about 4 channels, go with the M10.

If you only have one month, I guarantee that you will not get your Church Audio mics in time.  If you've got the time to wait, they're the best mics at that price, but if you don't have time to wait, go with the offerings from the Sound Professionals or buy used in the Yard Sale.  There are Church mics for sale there now, as Joe mentioned.

[Scooter123]

I spent about 3 months listening to every stealth audience tape on The Dime I could get my hands on, and then made a list of the shows and rigs that were used that I liked.  I'm not terribly sure a recorder makes any difference.  But small is best for Stealth. 

[ashevillain]

People who do video and get SBD feeds frequently like the H4N because it can take an XLR board feed, and these jokers usually go on to make screwed-up sounding, bad recordings with that rig.  (I have a particular antipathy for this setup because at half the local shows I go to I run into an idiot trying to snag the sbd feed who runs one of these, who I then have to convice that, yes, my actual pro audio gear is better and probably ought to get the SBD feed instead of someone who doesn't know what they're doing....but I digress).

This probably deserves it's own thread but damn I can not stand these idiots. It seems almost every show I go to lately someone has one of these Zoom pieces of shit and thinks they have the best gear known to man. 99% of the time they are also doing video and 99% of the time they show up like 5 minutes before the show starts. I've even seen bands recording themselves with the internal mics on these things.

Where did they get the idea that Zoom makes a good piece of gear? Has Zoom done some mass marketing flood campaign that I'm not aware of? Do they sell them at Best Buy or something? It's really crazy how many people I see with Zoom recorders these days.

edit: Also can't count the number of times some random person will see me taping and start asking me about my gear...when I finish explaining they have the typical deer in headlights look (because mics > preamp > recorder must be complicated to them?) and start telling me about the Zoom recorder they are going to get that is much better because it's got everything in one box.

I would give anything to trade these nutjobs for the stereotypical minidisc taper back in the day (shows up late, doesn't have cables., etc....but at least doesn't have an attitude about how good they think they're gear is).

[Brian Skalinder]

an idiot trying to snag the sbd feed who runs one of these, who I then have to convice that, yes, my actual pro audio gear is better and probably ought to get the SBD feed

One suggestion:  invest in a few pairs of splitters:  XLR, RCA, 1/4".

[Belexes]

I laugh when I go to seeds on Dime that rate their recording EX+ and it's a Zoom recording using the internals. 

If you say so.

[acidjack]

an idiot trying to snag the sbd feed who runs one of these, who I then have to convice that, yes, my actual pro audio gear is better and probably ought to get the SBD feed

One suggestion:  invest in a few pairs of splitters:  XLR, RCA, 1/4".

Oh yeah, this would be fine, except usually such idiot also shows about >5 min before the headliner goes on, making it somewhat difficult to re-configure everything, and inevitably pissing off the sound engineer.  Usually, said sound guy tells the idiot to talk to me, leave, or record with their Zoom's wonderful internal mics... but I guess you're right, a splitter would be a decent investment.