Topic: Interesting stereo image from stage lip. Example links posted.

[tbrown4]

I recorded a local band Friday at a crowded bar. Instrumentation was acoustic upright bass, electric guitar, "electric" fiddle, drums and another electric guitar. All instruments were plugged in to their respective amps, drums were not mic'd and only vocals were run through the PA and monitors. Setting up anywhere in the audience area at this place is pretty much impossible, so stage lip or soundboard is the only viable option. I didn't have a second deck with me to grab SBD as well.

Ran stage lip, if you want to even call it that since it's a 3" raised stage. I used a pair of AKG CK61 caps with stock AKG C460B bodies, configured pretty close to ORTF. I put the mics left of center at about 2' up. The right mic capsule was about 9" above the center-ish stage vocal monitor. My thinking was that I'd be able to capture all of the stage sounds from the amps as well as vocals form the monitor.

I was somewhat please with the result. The left channel is mostly bass, and the stage right guitar guitar. Fiddle appears slightly left of center. Drums are mostly right but present in the left. Stage left guitar and all vocals are mostly in the right channel. A few things I'm not totally pleased with is that the vocals for the stage left guitar player aren't as present as I'd like. The fiddle player used a pick-up/amp combo that gave a more harsh sound than I'd prefer. But, these two things are out of my control. Put on some headphones and experience a wild stereo experience:)

Example 1: Ophelia. Stage left guitar sings lead
FLAC16 http://www.archive.org/download/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16/smoothkentucky2011-07-08t03.flac
MP3 http://www.archive.org/download/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16/smoothkentucky2011-07-08t03.mp3


Example 2: Brown-Eyed Women. Drummer sings. Stage right guitar plays rhythm throughout most. Stage left guitar takes first solo, fiddle takes second solo, stage right guitar takes third solo.
FLAC16 http://www.archive.org/download/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16/smoothkentucky2011-07-08t10.flac
MP3 http://www.archive.org/download/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16/smoothkentucky2011-07-08t10.mp3

Example 3: No Looking Back. Drummer sings.
FLAC16 http://www.archive.org/download/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16/smoothkentucky2011-07-08t02.flac
MP3: http://www.archive.org/download/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16/smoothkentucky2011-07-08t02.mp3

The entire shows can be had here: http://www.archive.org/details/smoothkentucky2011-07-08.akg463s.naiant.flac16 . The 24 bit version will be up shortly.

[newplanet7]

I love pulling tapes from onstage even with vocals, as I've had everyone from great to ok results.
The best part, as you say, is throwing on headphones and it gets recreated.
Love it.

EDIT:
Just to give you a heads up, all your identifiers/ say 463

[tbrown4]

I love pulling tapes from onstage even with vocals, as I've had everyone from great to ok results.
The best part, as you say, is throwing on headphones and it gets recreated.
Love it.

I've done some stage lip before, but none with this kind of image. I'm really enjoying it. I wanna do this more often.

[newplanet7]

Indeed. Thanks Tim. The imaging is great.
Just to give you a heads up, all your identifiers/ say 463
-todd

[tbrown4]

Indeed. Thanks Tim. The imaging is great.
Just to give you a heads up, all your identifiers/ say 463
-todd

Yeah, I noticed that after it was all up. I've get motivated maybe I'll delete and re-upload. Unless there is a way to change the identifier?

[newplanet7]

Pretty sure you can just go back and hit edit item. From there it gives you two choices to either change the info or the files.
Option 1)
I want to change the information (metadata) about my item.

For example, I want to change my [title] or [description].
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option 2)
I want to change the files in my item.

For example, I want to rename an audio file, add a file, or delete a file.

[tbrown4]

Pretty sure you can just go back and hit edit item. From there it gives you two choices to either change the info or the files.
Option 1)
I want to change the information (metadata) about my item.

For example, I want to change my [title] or [description].
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option 2)
I want to change the files in my item.

For example, I want to rename an audio file, add a file, or delete a file.

I've tried this a few times, but I always forget that they first five items cannot be changed.

identifier:   
title:   
creator:   
mediatype:   
collection:

[scb]

Put on some headphones and experience a wild stereo experience:)

i miss being able to put the mics onstage for kimock!

[tbrown4]

Im really enjoying this method. Did it again for an outdoor show last evening. Same basic results.

Put on some headphones and experience a wild stereo experience:)

i miss being able to put the mics onstage for kimock!

[newplanet7]

Nice. This is why I usually run onstage whenever I can. Even if the vocals are low, you get imaging from the instruments like no other.

[F.O.Bean]

Yeah i used to record lotus all the time stage-lip/onstage, and always loved the results

[stevetoney]

Tim, et al:

Suggestion 1.  Get an R4, R4 Pro, DR688 (or 744 or 788) and record either one or two extra channels of vocals directly from the stage monitors.  Either tape the mics to the front of the monitors or put them on a short mic stand.  Mix the vocal channels so they're center panned, or I suppose you could l or r pan supporting vocals if you wanted.

Suggestion 2.  If you don't wanna buy a 4-track recorder, just get a second handheld and a pair of CA-14's and record the stage monitors as above.  By themselves, vocals don't need a high dollar microphone to sound good.  You might have to do a little more work in post to get tracks aligned, but I never thought it was much work at all.

Suggestion 3.  If you're enjoying doing stage lip recording, time to starting thinking about getting yourself a mid-side recording rig!  Nothing like the control you get with mid-side and the imaging is fantastic.

Personally, I love recording instrumental bands stage lip with a 2 mic setup, but I still prefer moving back and getting balanced vocals in the mix if the band's music has lyrics.

[SmokinJoe]

I just listened to Ophelia.  That is a really nice image.  Great job!!

Sometimes Stage Lip is a crap shoot.  Frequently it's excellent, sometimes it's not.  If the band is mostly instrumentals, the odds increase.  If vocals are an important part of the band, I probably won't.  In my mind, the thing that makes Stage Lip work so well is that you are picking it up directly with our good condensers mics, instead of going SM57 > mixer > PA > our good condensers mics.  As long as you can get a decent balance.

Here is a good one, and it's almost entirely instrumental.  I like it, but it's not as busy as yours.  http://www.archive.org/details/delf2011-06-18.mk4.flac16f

Here is one that is weak in the vocals. http://www.archive.org/details/aeg2011-06-24.mg210-sbd-mix.flac16f  I had mics near the singer's monitor, + a SBD feed.  I thought that might be enough after mixing, it wasn't.  Just one of those times I guessed wrong.

Here is a show where I ran 4 channels... 2 AT853's stage lip + 2 ADK-TLs out in the room a little ways.  I didn't mix them, instead I went with the sound of the ADK's for the first set, but they were too chatty for the second set so I went with the stage lip AT's.

Another thing about running stage lip... cheap mics can sound really good.  The sound difference between low end mics versus high end mics becomes much smaller stage lip than it is "from the section".  One of my biggest fears with running stage lip is that some wook will spill a drink on my mics, and no tape is worth a $500 repair bill. In the past this fear made me a nervous wreck and I couldn't enjoy the show.   In those cases, now I'll use some other mics like my AT853's... they aren't shit mics, they'll pull a great tape, and because I happen to own about 8 card caps so if something happens to one, no big deal.

[ellaguru]

ive done plenty of stage lip as well and dig the imaging i get upon playback.  i've had best luck with spaced subcard, but even my mg210's have pulled the goods too. 

i also freak out constantly about them being in the way of the 'fun' up there.  sure, they're safe there for most bands, but there's no way in hell im doing stage lip for the dirtbombs, for example..

chris

[greenone]

Pretty sure you can just go back and hit edit item. From there it gives you two choices to either change the info or the files.
Option 1)
I want to change the information (metadata) about my item.

For example, I want to change my [title] or [description].
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option 2)
I want to change the files in my item.

For example, I want to rename an audio file, add a file, or delete a file.

I've tried this a few times, but I always forget that they first five items cannot be changed.

identifier:   
title:   
creator:   
mediatype:   
collection:

Tim - I can change the identifier for you. No way to do it yourself, it's admin-only.