Topic: Problem with my rig (lack of bass)

[George]

Hi All, hope I can get some resolution to this asap.  I've taped two shows with my new rig and both times the same thing has happened:  lack of bass in the recording.  The first time was outdoors on a windy day, so I chalked it up to that, however this 2nd recording was in a small cafe and yup, no bass.     

I uploaded a sample...it should have quite a bit of bass in the recording.  I was literally sitting five feet away from the musician with the mikes clipped to my collar. 

Countryman B3's>tiny box (via external breakout cable)>Sony M10 (24/44)

tia!

[Brian Skalinder]

Confirm all the jacks are seating fully -- a partially seated jack could cause this symptom.

[George]

Confirm all the jacks are seating fully -- a partially seated jack could cause this symptom.

Yup, I checked them all during the recordings a few times out of paranoia from my first incident.

[MarkE]

Also check the balance from right to left. If the bass increases when on only the left or the right channel, but is gone when in the middle one of the mics may be wired out of phase... Its kinda a stretch, but........

[TimeBandit]

maybe you stood on a position + a mic configuration where the bass frequencies deleted out themselves ... maybe you can solve that in post pro on audio software you set beside a stereo track an extra mono track:
let the stereo track like it is, and raise the bass + set a Lowpass filter on the Mono track only and mix it with the stereo track . Check out if the left or right channel of the recording is better for the "Mono bass track".
a kinda redneck method but helps often ...

or you got a bass roll off / HPF filter on preamp or machine switched on and forgotten about it?

[George]

MarkE,
           The balance is fine, there's basically no bass at all in the recording. 

TimeBandit,

           Any of the known offenders (HPF) was turned off on the recorder...the preamp doesn't have a HFP option.  Believe me, I went through all the options to make sure I did this right.  The preamp was plugged into the Line In as well. 

I'm going to run some tests in a few hrs...toss on Judas Priest's Painkiller (opening track) and use the same rig, cable included, and see what kind of results I will get.  Then I'll swap out the preamp with a soundpro bbox and see if I get the same results.  Then I'll swap out the mikes.  Something's gotta give here.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You're on the right track with the methodical testing.

But you also need to post samples of the problem files.

[George]

It's the preamp.  I swapped out the tinybox and a soundpro battery box.  Turned off the gain on the tinybox so the levels are identical based on the meters.  I taped the first 10 seconds of the opening track (painkiller)...anyone familiar with this album will understand why. 

On the tinybox=no bass whatsoever.
On the bbox = bass is there.

Time to shoot an email off to Jon.  I also have a mini xlr>dual mini xlr break out cable from Jon.

fyi: I used the same interconnect between both boxes.

it-goes-to-eleven,

        I posted a small sample in my first post of the problem file.  I use the equalization plugin in audacity and the recordings in question sound a tad better...at least they are listenable now. 

I also posted the Painkiller samples for each box.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

it-goes-to-eleven,

        I posted a small sample in my first post of the problem file.  I use the equalization plugin in audacity and the recordings in question sound a tad better...at least they are listenable now. 

Whoops - missed that!

[George]

Okay - I emailed Jon and he asked me to try my at853's.  They sound fine with the tinybox...the B3's?  Nope.  I'll contact Darktrain who wired them for me (mini XLR) and see if he has any thoughts.

edit: to add, the two samples above did not muster enough "gotcha" between the two boxes and the B3's.  Using the at853's and the B3's in a comparison with the tinybox displayed a distinct difference. The at853's roared and the B3's sounded lifeless.  Hopefully it's just a simple wiring issue (crosses fingers).

[George]

Next step is confirm operation of both sets of mics with the SP BB.  If the ATs don't work properly (that would surprise me, SP normally wires for ATs), then the two pairs are wired differently.  If they do work with the BB, I think I know the issue with the tinybox--it is wired in a manner that works specifically for ATs and many other 3-wire mics, but the B3s could be an exception, so I probably need to swap it back to standard 3-wire.

Got it.  The B3's just sound off with the soundpro box...they have a little more bass, but the treble sounds odd...like its artificially enhanced.  The 853's sounded great, very punchy and clean sounding  Another thing I noticed....the 853's run way hotter than the B3's (probably as much as 12db).  I really had to crank my stereo to approximate the levels between the two mikes on the soundpro bbox.   When I went to tape the show last night it was in a small cafe, I was not more than 10' away from the PA and musician, I had to kick up the gain on the tinybox to high (and set the rec'd volume on the M10 to 9) which introduced some noise to the recordings.  Will the re-wiring help alleviate this issue?

[George]

Okay, darktrain got back to me and offered to take a look at the B3's. 

Jon, do you want to hold off on touching the tinybox till I get the B3's back?

[SmokinJoe]

I suggest you get in touch with Richard (IllConditioned).  He probably knows the preferred wiring for Countryman mics (red wire goes to this, yellow wire goes to that...)

I wouldn't keep running them until you get the wiring verified.  It might be OK, but you might be very close to frying an internal FET on the mics.  Some things tolerate being wired up backwards, and some don't.  Just because you have "gotten away with it" thus far doesn't mean you should push your luck.

[George]

Robb rewired them.  I'll test them right away when I get them back. 

All the same, I never stated I got away with using them this way...I hated the results I obtained.   

[George]

Ok, I got them back and did a test...I enclosed the samples below.  Sounds good to me.  I recorded to 16/44, then mp3'd them with EAC & Lame to 128kbps.

I did my best to keep the sound leveled and the tb has its gain set at Mid.  The mikes were placed at the same position, a hand lengths away, from one of my speakers. 

Tell me what you think. 

edit:  it's a Keb Mo track, the painkiller track might piss off my neighbors if I used it again.