Topic: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount

[cd2go]

Thanks for all the input everyone    I've learned so much from this site I'm glad I could contribute something small like this. Quick responses:

Have you noticed any jitter with using only one lyre (and the stand gets hit or the floor is thumping) compared to the normal 2 for stabilization?

I have never noticed any issues due to this set-up, and I like acidjack, have seen it bounce pretty good. I primarily record amplified rock music, but I suspect if you were to be recording softer music in an acoustic/jazz/classical setting, something a bit more stable would be better, as you would be much more likely to hear bumps/shakes in those situations. Previously I was using the DPA UA097 dual-rubber shock mount that comes with the 352x kit. That mount (as well as the single-rubber DPA circle-style compact shock mount and the gooseneck mount) are quite "bouncy" themselves, and never had a problem with that set-up either.

I prefer polycarbonate when making stuff like this.  Acrylic/plexiglass is too fragile and prone to cracking, IMHO.

I will look into getting that material, thanks! I have 2' left of this stuff if anyone wants to fool around with it, just pay shipping. I was also thinking aluminum but it would be heavier; plus theoretically, vibrations transmit better through denser material correct? So plastic should be better (durability aside) than any metal for this application, no?

Be careful not to accientally drop the bar or knock the stand into something with the bar attached, since plexiglass is somewhat brittle and can crack if stressed.  The higher stress locations and where breakage is most likely are around the holes are and especially the thinner filed down section around the center mounting hole.

Great call, I learned this the hard way. I had left the mount in my bag with both the top and bottom adapters still attached; last week I grabbed it out of my bag, and it fell to the ground, splitting in 2 pieces  Good thing I always lug around a 60-yd roll of Shurtape.

-james

[NOLAfishwater]

you could probably substitute one of these for the plexiglass and just use a washer so that the nut doesn't go through. they are made out of lightweight aluminum and it is even predrilled in the middle for your light stand or bogen rapid adapter.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/534727-REG/K_M_23550_500_55_23550_Adjustable_Microphone_Bar.html

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I prefer polycarbonate when making stuff like this.  Acrylic/plexiglass is too fragile and prone to cracking, IMHO.

I will look into getting that material, thanks! I have 2' left of this stuff if anyone wants to fool around with it, just pay shipping. I was also thinking aluminum but it would be heavier; plus theoretically, vibrations transmit better through denser material correct? So plastic should be better (durability aside) than any metal for this application, no?

Acrylic can be so finicky to cut, and drill. Some is worse than others - maybe the more scratch resistant stuff is harder.

Plastic should dampen better than metal.  Wood is great at dampening vibrations.  Aluminum dampens better than steel.  Plastic intake manifolds make cars more quiet.

Maybe mount them on hockey pucks?

[John Willett]

^^ Depends on the DPA mic.  For the 4021, the INV-2 wouldn't work, as the cable is too narrow to be held by the back lyre.

The back clip does not hold the cable, but the back of the mic. where the cable exits - from the pic. at the top you can see it's thicker there.

I have similarly run my 4021s in a single lyre of the INV-6 clamped to a balcony with absurd amounts of shock, to the point my entire clamp apparatus was visibly moving up and down, and had no issues (other than being scared one of my windscreens would be jarred loose and fall into the crowd).

With a small mic. you can use s single clip - but you need to get the balance right and carefully loop the output cable and clamp it so as not to transmit noise via the cable (NB: not as in the pic. at the top).

[cd2go]

The back clip does not hold the cable, but the back of the mic. where the cable exits - from the pic. at the top you can see it's thicker there.

The smaller back lyre is still too big for the collar on the back of the 4022 mics--it is designed to securely hold the wider lemo connector of the 4023 mic...I guess you could "rest" the cable on the back lyre, but that wouldn't prevent forward droop, just rear droop.

[bhadella]

The back clip does not hold the cable, but the back of the mic. where the cable exits - from the pic. at the top you can see it's thicker there.

The smaller back lyre is still too big for the collar on the back of the 4022 mics--it is designed to securely hold the wider lemo connector of the 4023 mic...I guess you could "rest" the cable on the back lyre, but that wouldn't prevent forward droop, just rear droop.

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   

[cd2go]

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   

I'd love to see those!

[F.O.Bean]

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   

I'd love to see those!

Me three! Even tho I have every mount I will EVER need

[dactylus]

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   

I'd love to see those!

^
I'd love to see them too.

[F.O.Bean]

I have similarly run my 4021s in a single lyre of the INV-6 clamped to a balcony with absurd amounts of shock, to the point my entire clamp apparatus was visibly moving up and down, and had no issues (other than being scared one of my windscreens would be jarred loose and fall into the crowd).

So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right? I was looking on B+Hs website, and saw a package deal of [2] lyres for $32 that look like theyd work for me. I would rather have each capsule shockmounted rather than shockmounting my whole vark bar, which is rather heavy to shockmount. That way, I could mount my vark bars directly onto my stand and shock JUST the Schoeps caps. Seems like it would be a better shocking option than doing the whole vark bar

Don't get me wrong though, I've had my whole stand swaying gently back and forth quite a few times at rowdy crowds and when some spunion knocks into my stand numerous times within 5 minutes, and my A20S shocks have done the job really well, because those instances arent audible on my recordings But I just want something new honestly

By the way, you can buy/order the lyres by themselves at B&H for $13.  "70mm Wide Lyre with 19/25mm Clip" (#042205) is the one they use on the INV-6 and -7.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I was just about to ask. 

Thanks for the link. I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting! Then Id just need to figure a way to mount the lyres onto the 3/8" threading of my vark bars! I normally run my NOLA active bars 99% of the time, but the few venues where I need to run PAS, Id feel more comfortable shocking each capsule vs. the whole vark bar. Thanks for all of this great info fellas

[cd2go]

So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right?

Yup!

I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting!

It's just the "shock" portion of the INV mount; it has a hole at the base that you can put a thin screw/bolt through. With a little DIY it makes a very lightweight setup. Go for it!

[F.O.Bean]

So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right?

Yup!

I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting!

It's just the "shock" portion of the INV mount; it has a hole at the base that you can put a thin screw/bolt through. With a little DIY it makes a very lightweight setup. Go for it!

Thanks for the info And I always love a good DIY project

[Gutbucket]

I would rather have each capsule shockmounted rather than shockmounting my whole vark bar, which is rather heavy to shockmount. That way, I could mount my vark bars directly onto my stand and shock JUST the Schoeps caps. Seems like it would be a better shocking option than doing the whole vark bar

In terms of actual shock isolation its actually more effective to suspend the entire bar and capsule assembly together. The greater mass of the whole assembly has more inertia than the lightweight capsules.  The elastic shockmount and whatever is suspended with it form a resonant system based upon the spring rate of the suspension and the mass of the load.  A more massive load and/or softer spring lowers the resonant frequency of the system, which means isolation from vibration to a lower frequency. 

This is why there are lyre inserts with different spring-rates which ideally are matched with weight of the microphone.  The suspension needs to be 'wiggly enough' while still providing enough support.  Not 'wiggly enough' means not well isolated against low frequency vibration.  Stand bumps and knocks are predominantly low frequency vibrations.

Another unrelated issue is that if the entire bar is suspended, the relationship between the two capsules is locked rigidly in place- one can't wiggle independently of the other, which could conceivably cause some wobbling of the stereo image.  Not sure if that would actually be much an issue though.  If things are wiggling that much, that often for very long, you probably have more pressing issues to deal with.  The first point is of greater concern.

Of course practicality trumps both these concerns.  A single shock mounted bar is typically attractive because it is more compact, minimalist and easy to setup.  However if two separate shocks works better for you for whatever reason, there's no reason not to do that.

[yug du nord]

A Vark bar with SGC clips or a fixed-angle bar works great mounted in this INV 7HG:
http://www.rycote.com/products/invision-inv-7hg-mkiii/

[acidjack]

So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right?

Yup!

I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting!

It's just the "shock" portion of the INV mount; it has a hole at the base that you can put a thin screw/bolt through. With a little DIY it makes a very lightweight setup. Go for it!

Thanks for the info And I always love a good DIY project

FWIW, Bean, with my Schoeps, I either use a kwon bar in an INV-HG Rycote, or with Rycote INV-5s, which have a back stabilizer that works with the Schoeps caps. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?gclid=CjwKEAiAxNilBRD88r2azcqB2zsSJABy2B9617W3HmnXgV6FvGVNwk-MnvDprS1MvhH6LaGTAqxIDhoCCFTw_wcB&is=REG&sku=554997&Q=&O=&A=details

Not sure how possible that is with DPA 402x; it would not work with 4021s for sure. But yes, my Rycotes have withstood some pretty insane amounts of  noise and movement.