Topic: Anyone else recording 3-channel stereo? suggest a configuration..

[Gutbucket]

Doing a stage-lip recording of a jazz trio recording next Wednesday night.  This is a monthly gig for me and I've been running three seperate rigs for it recently- two which remain mostly unchanged from month to month and a third for trying out new (to me) setups. The unchanging ones are usually three spaced omnis and a Tetramic (a coincident ambisonic mic).  This month the Tetramic is in the shop for a checkup so I'm thinking of substituting a mic I use less often in a standard M/S configuration, which will double as part of a variation on the new setup I tried last time (OCT 2).  It's been interesting trying different setups for a regular gig where everything else remains pretty much the same.  Suggestions don't have to be a three-channel, but that's what I've been intersted in recently.  Compatible mixdown to two channel stereo is a plus.

Current plan:
1) (standard setup) Three spaced omnis ~2' between each (4060 on stalks)
2) Two channel Mid/Side (Peluso P-stereo coincident LD set to cardioid mid- a standard setup, but a mic I use less often when I have the Tetramic)
3) (experimental but worked well last time) Three channel Optimum Cardioid Triangle- center cardioid + sideways facing hypers (ADK TLs) spaced about 1' to either side and slightly behind. OCT was the new setup I tried last time, using a center cardioid derived from the Tetramic. This time I plan to use the Peluso cardioid mid as the Center.

The othe regular taper usually runs AKG cardioids (tubes) in X/Y or a nearspaced config on a Shure vertbar right next to my mics, so that's covered.

Stage setup is guitar and guitar cabinets left, drums center, acoustic bass left with cabinets on either side of the drum kit.  Kit is ~5' back from the mics on-stage at the lip.  Angle inclusive of all sources viewed from the center mic position is something like ~80-90 degrees.  No PA, well balanced sound on-stage and I don't close mic or DI anything.

[Gutbucket]

I ran the Peluso stereo mic in M/S Blumlein (fig 8's in M/S mode), 5 omnis across the front instead of three (outermost pair for use as surround channel feeds), and the ADK TLs as OCT L/R hypers again to be used along with a forward facing center contributed from the Peluso. 

The other regular taper who runs X/Y AKG tube cardioids didn't make it last night. 
A new to this gig taper did instead and ran his ADK TLs as cardioid X/Y.

The omnis are all I've listened to so far and sounded great as usual, and the two outermost surround omnis are far more convenient to run than the seperate pair on the back wall, plus all 5 are synced on the same recorder.  Their surround contribution is very good but quite different than the back wall mics so I need to do more comparative listening, but if this works well, I may give up the back wall surround omnis.  Next time I plan to try pushing the outermost omnis wider on the stagelip and see how that works.  This time I had an even spacing between all 5, about 2' between each, so the outermost L/R surround pair were ~8' apart.

Haven't listened to the stereo Blumlein, or how the forward facing figure-8 of the Peluso works as as center mic in the OCT setup vs the recommended cardioid yet. 

[T-90]

blr again i assume you lucky bastard?

[Gutbucket]

And a particularly smoldering session!  No leslie cab again though.  Doesn't change his style of playing, but seems to bring out a more clean cutting solo-line vibe rather that the big whirly ambient wash with more tape echo with the twirly cab.  Both ways = taper WIN.

[T-90]

^ absolutely agree....there is still plenty of delay to occupy the brain and without the whirly twirl of the Leslie cab he's def cutting through the mix with more presence when the delay is off....and he doesnt have to lug that huge thing around anymore....winners, all of us!  Was fike there again?

Back to your 3 mic config thread 

[Gutbucket]

Yeah you nailed it, there was that mesmerizing echoplex tape delay brain occupation thing going on.  Love that psychic time displacement effect.  The first time it really grabbed me by the hippocampus was Kimock working it at a Zero show in SanFrancisco back in '92, and it seemed like the sonic equivalent of the Hitchcock Vertigo camera effect.  I kept a strong grip on balcony railing at Great American Music Hall and I had to find out what that little magical beige tolex covered box sitting on top of the guitar amps was.

You ever play though one? I haven't, but I'm mostly an amateur acoustic hack.

I'm fine with dropping the Leslie occasionally for variety, but not every time.  I dig the swirl.  Plus there is never any worry about HVAC noise with that thing hummin' & buzzin' on-stage.

Haven't seen Fike at any of the Green Room sessions yet, just saw him at the outdoor MOCA show in August.

[Gutbucket]

The outermost pair of omnis gaff-taped flush with the surface of the stage at the lip worked so well that I think I might try putting the three main L/C/R omnis on the stage surface next time, instead mounted on the stalks ~2' above it.  That would make them boundary mounted, with the main three farther on stage about 2' in from the lip closer to the band and the outside surround pair mounted at the lip edge again, but spaced left/right as far as possible.

[T-90]

The outermost pair of omnis gaff-taped flush with the surface of the stage at the lip worked so well that I think I might try putting the three main L/C/R omnis on the stage surface next time, instead mounted on the stalks ~2' above it.  That would make them boundary mounted, with the main three farther on stage about 2' in from the lip closer to the band and the outside surround pair mounted at the lip edge again, but spaced left/right as far as possible.

interesting....i would be interested in hearing the difference.  what is the effect that you like about the mics being flush to the stage as opposed to 2' above it?

[Gutbucket]

Might be more clarity from eliminating the reflection off the floor and the boundary mouning direct-sound thing, and easier to setup quickly for this gig.  I'll have to do it with the same mic positioning (mics on the stage surface directly under were they have been on stalks) to know for certain.  The flush mounted edge-lip pair I used last time were spaced wider than the middle three on stalks in addition to being out a the front edge of the stage so I'll have to test it to really know, but the raw feed from them sounds so good that it put the thought in my head to try the three main mics directy on the stage surface as well.   Partly it's just shooting for an very easy setup.. it would be fast & easy to tape down the 4060s in their little hard rubbber boundary mounts (I'd use those to keep them from being crushed if accidentally stepped on) rather than rigging them up on the rods beforehand and taping those to the stage lip so they curve into the right position.  The pair I taped to the front edge last time weren't in danger of being stepped on and I didn't use the mounts, plus the idea for those it to pick up more room and crowd ambience from their position at the edge.

I layed these same stalk mounted mics down on the stage surface for Charlie Hunter Trio when the venue didn't want any mics visible above the stage and I had already talked the venue manager into allowing the Tetramic to stick up about 5" above the stage front, so I didn't want to press for the rods sticking up, even though they are nearly invisible from the audience.  That worked out so well it encourages me to try it again (fortunately no one steped on them).  I wouldn't do it everytime since it puts the mics in more danger, but for these jazz trio seated gigs I'd feel comfortable doing it and using the protective mounts.