Nagra SD Recorder

[mohaned1]

Hello all,

I am considering purchasing one of two recorders, the Sony PCM D-1 and the Nagra SD. in your opinion, which recorder has better onboard mic preamps? I asked Nagra for information on the Nagra SD and here is what they said:

"Thank you for your interest in our products. The noise floor with maximum mike gain and the input potentiometer fully clockwise and the input loaded with 200 Ohm is around 49-50 dBA."

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

[NOLAfishwater]

what are you using it for and what kind of mics are you using?

[mohaned1]

I'm using DPA 4060 mics from core-sound. i'll have three main uses: recording nature sounds like bird calls, urban activities like the sounds of a restaurant in Mexico and recording loud concerts. Right now I'm using an R-09HR which works okay but I'm looking for something significantly better. I'm rather new at this so any advice you want to give me is welcome.

[F.O.Bean]

Get a Sony PCM-M10 and a pair of Church Audio CA-14 Cards and Omnis And a Church Audio Battery Box

[acidjack]

I'm using DPA 4060 mics from core-sound. i'll have three main uses: recording nature sounds like bird calls, urban activities like the sounds of a restaurant in Mexico and recording loud concerts. Right now I'm using an R-09HR which works okay but I'm looking for something significantly better. I'm rather new at this so any advice you want to give me is welcome.

If you're doing nature recording, your primary concern is going to be having a very, very quiet preamp. Based on the units you're suggesting buying, you're willing to spend some real money.  Are your 4060s wired up with the Coresound battery box, and therefore terminated in a 1/8" plug?  In some ways, that is less than ideal, as it limits your ability to use better, quieter preamps like the Sound Devices USBpre2, EAA PSP2, or Lunatec V3.

Optimally, I would have the 4060s reterminated to a single miniplug or mini-XLR, then have Naiant (www.naiant.com - mshilarious on this board) build you a "PFA".  The PFA allows you to plug the mics into any 48V preamp but steps the voltage down for these mics.  Then I would run either the 4060s>Lunatec V3 or Sound Devices USBpre2>Sony PCM-D50 (a combo that will cost as much or less than the Sony unit you originally suggested).

If you don't want to go to that trouble and want to keep the Coresound battery box, and only want to run two channels, then I guess it comes down to what small recorder has the least self-noise on its miniplug inputs.  I would assume the PCM-D50 and more expensive PCM-D1 are quieter than the very inexpensive PCM-M10, but I would check the specs before I spent a lot more money on something that might not be that much of an improvement.

You say you want to record "loud concerts" - is the size of your rig a factor (i.e., are you recording openly, or in a more... low profile situation)?

[WiFiJeff]

While I love my V3, absolutely nothing is better with the 4060s than the DPA MMA6000.  It's optimized for the 40xx mini-mics, it's a lot smaller and cheaper and the sound is marvelous.  DPA will also re-terminate your Core Sound 4060s with the original microdots (but not for free) that the MMA6000 needs to see.

Jeff

[hi and lo]

While I love my V3, absolutely nothing is better with the 4060s than the DPA MMA6000.  It's optimized for the 40xx mini-mics, it's a lot smaller and cheaper and the sound is marvelous.  DPA will also re-terminate your Core Sound 4060s with the original microdots (but not for free) that the MMA6000 needs to see.

Jeff

Couldn't possibly disagree more. It is indeed a smaller/less expensive solution, but to conclude that it is "optimized" for 406x mics and sounds better than any other pre needs more than just anecdotal evidence. I'd run 406x > pfa > psp-2 all day long over the MMA6000.

[Gutbucket]

I'm using DPA 4060 mics from core-sound. i'll have three main uses: recording nature sounds like bird calls, urban activities like the sounds of a restaurant in Mexico and recording loud concerts.

That's potentially a very large range of dynamics.  Most probematic is probably the bird calls and very low level nature recordings.

If you're doing nature recording, your primary concern is going to be having a very, very quiet preamp.

..and quiet mics.  The noise floor of the preamp becomes more important with less sensitive mics, and less so with higher sensitivity mics.  The more sensitive the mics, the less gain required from the preamp, and the less noise it contributes.  As long as the preamp is quieter than the mic's self noise by a margin, it will not contribute to the resulting noise in the recording.

While I love my V3, absolutely nothing is better with the 4060s than the DPA MMA6000. 

This is true in that the DPA makes that preamp specifically for their miniature mics, and in my experience it works very, very well.  Yet despite it's quality build, solid dependebility and very good performance and match to the mics, the MMA6000 is not the absolute quietest preamp around if that is most important.  As an example, and simply because I checked myself by ear if not by measurement, the Church CA-UGLY has a lower noise floor (as should the 9100 with nearly identical circuit) although it offers less gain and other nice features.  Yet in the end, the noise difference and reduced gain range is not significant for my uses due to the high sensitivity of the 4060.  In the end, the reason I use the CA-UGLY or Niant PFAs with 4060s most often is simply convenience and small size. 

Regardless of preamp, if high gain nature recording and lowest noise possible is important, consider that although the 4060 has a lower self-noise than most other miniature mics, its self-noise isn't low enough for many serious nature recordists.  It's no problem at all for urban sound capture, music, or the less serious occasional nature recording I do with them where ambient noise floor is almost always higher than the mic self noise, but they aren't the 'go-to' mic of choice for nature recording with something like a Nagra.  However they are a great 'one-size fits all' compromise that will work well for the overall range of things you want to record.  Using a decently quiet preamp with clean gain (like the DPA MMA6000, Church or Niant preamps) may be all you really need in combination with the R-09HR you have now.  I'd suggest trying an external preamp with your existing recorder first.

[John Willett]

Hello all,

I am considering purchasing one of two recorders, the Sony PCM D-1 and the Nagra SD. in your opinion, which recorder has better onboard mic preamps? I asked Nagra for information on the Nagra SD and here is what they said:

"Thank you for your interest in our products. The noise floor with maximum mike gain and the input potentiometer fully clockwise and the input loaded with 200 Ohm is around 49-50 dBA."

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

The Nagra SD is an extremely nice machine.

Nagra pre-amps have always been excellent and their ADCs superb.

I have an SD at the moment which I am running through its paces and I'm liking it very much at the moment.

[Red Boink]

I use a Sony PCM D1 and the ad797 chips mic in are quiet and sound well.  I haven't used a Nagra since the 1980s....

[328]

Nagra.

[dointhatrag]

I have the same coresound mics.

This IS your best recorder for the money for those coresound mics.

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-620.html

choose the SUP mod and you have yourself a tiny little pro foley rig with your DPA's.


Peace..

[sunjan]

I'm using DPA 4060 mics from core-sound. i'll have three main uses: recording nature sounds like bird calls, urban activities like the sounds of a restaurant in Mexico and recording loud concerts. Right now I'm using an R-09HR which works okay but I'm looking for something significantly better. I'm rather new at this so any advice you want to give me is welcome.

Just found a Dutch nature recordist using the same rig, 4060>Nagra SD. Maybe the same guy as the OP!?

http://www.manvanhetgeluid.nl/?p=353

[Gutbucket]

Just found a Dutch nature recordist using the same rig, 4060>Nagra SD. Maybe the same guy as the OP!?

http://www.manvanhetgeluid.nl/?p=353

That's a great highly-compact binaural rig.   I like the padded earhook mounts.  It's probably limited only on super quiet material by the self-noise of the mics at ~23 dB(A) and on the loudest by their max SPL of 134dB.  Though I haven't checked it I'm certain the Nagra input stage can handle that full mic output signal range cleanly.