Topic: Recorder for use w/ Church Audio mics (CA14/11s)?

[tameone]

Hello all, first post.  I was planning to buy a recorder in the $200 range like the H2N, Roland R-05, or Tascam DR-40, but I've listened to many recordings taken from the internal mics on recorders like the Zoom H1 and the Tascam DR-05, and I'm not satisfied with the results.  After doing some reading here, I've decided to go with a pair of Church Audio microphones and a battery box instead of using the internal mics on the personal recorder I have yet to purchase.   So, I'd like some suggestions on what recorder would suit my needs and would work well with a pair of CA14s or CA11s.  I will be doing mainly stereo recordings of amplified instruments in small venues -- rock, funk, electronic fusion, and live EDM.  I'd like 24-bit/96kHz recording, decent battery life, and under $200.  I'm not opposed to something in the $100 or $150 range since I will need to make an additional investment for the microphones, but I'd like one that I can use the internal mics on as a backup and still be able to make good recordings.  Suggestions?

Thanks

[Belexes]

Sony M10 hands down.  At this time of year, it could be found new for $200 or less.  The battery life is amazing on 2 AA's.

[Hypnocracy]

For your price range you could consider the DR-2D Tascam...not as power efficient as a M10 but you get 4 channel recording....they can be had for in the $125 range on eBay-Amazon right now...

http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR2D-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003838PHQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323784389&sr=1-1

If you do loud shows you are correct that you need a Battery Box for the Church Microphones...but if you like acoustic you may need a Pre to get enough gain...

Enjoy and leave your wallet at the door!

[tameone]

Thanks for the replies.

I've been doing some research on the Tascam DR-2D, but I'm wondering if it can record the mic-in (using external mic) and the line-in at the same time using its 4-track recording capability?  Acccording to the manual, in dual recording mode, it must be set to 'mic-in', but I can't find anywhere if the line in will function when not in 'line-in' mode.  I've also read that it cannot accept a very hot signal, so would it be a viable solution to simultaneously record using external mics and from a sound board over the line in? 

I'm a little torn.  I like the 4-channel recording of the Tascam, however I'm not sure if it can handle how I wish to use it in the rare event I want to plug into a sound board.  Also from what I've read, the internal mics are a little better than the Sony M10.  But, battery life on the M10 is a big plus.. I'd like to be able to set it and forget it and record 24bit/96khz for up to 3 hours without worrying about batteries. 

so, any input on the tascam's ability to record mics + line in, its battery life, noise on the line-in?, or any comments on internal mic quality between it and the Sony M10?  Thanks

[bryonsos]

$208 open box M10 from Adorama:

http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20430134.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase

[hoppedup]

I believe the DR-2D only allows four channel while using line-in and the internal mics. Hopefully a DR-2D owner will chime in here. So you could record with externals and internals, or SBD and internals, but the internals are two of your channels. If you are buying CA-14s, this would seem to be a useless feature set. Looks like you can record from two external sources according to page 44 of the DR-2D owner's manual.

If I read the specs on these Tascams correctly, you would have to step up to the DR-100mkII to use the four channel feature for externals and SBD feed. It looks to sell for $329.99. I don't read correctly

I would go with the M10. It is a proven, dependable recorder with great battery life. The only reason I don't own one is because I bought the D50 long before the M10 came out. It is probably the most popular small recorder in use by ts.com members. Personally, I run external mics (Ca-14) and get board feeds most of the time. I use two separate recorders for this and it works for me. I am not locked into setting my mics up by the board or making long cable runs to use one recorder.

That said, if you want something that has decent internals for less than $200, I'd say the Tascam DR-08 might do it for you. It is very small and the internals are cardioids, so may be better suited to the type of taping you'll be doing. Just checked and B&H has it for $69.00, which is cheaper than I have ever seen it. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/673340-REG/Tascam_DR_08_DR_08_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

[tameone]

Very good info so far, thank you.

I'm leaning towards the M10.. only thing holding me back is the internal mics because I'd like to have decent internals as a backup..

This review of the Tascam DR-08 repeatedly claims the M10 is better for music recording, but that the 08 produces clearer voices, so I don't know what to make of it  http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/tascam/dr-08.htm

Everything I've read claims the DR-2D has better internal mics than the M10 (direction vs omni?).  Any input on how DR-2D and M10 mics compare to something like the Zoom H1 (I've listened to amplified/loud music recordings from this extensively, and it's acceptable, but just barely), or the larger Tascam DR-40 (or even DR-07 mkII)?

[ScoobieKW]

As far as M10 internals go, check out these recordings I made before I purchased mics.

http://www.archive.org/details/mgg2011-08-13.m10.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/nm2011-08-13.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/pk2011-08-05.M10.flac16 (the noise on this is due to my setting gain too conservative)

The one issue with the M10 omnis, is imaging. They are too close together for a decent stereo image. There is a mid-side eq plugin that is popular to widen the image.

[Hypnocracy]

Darby speaks of using the DR-2d for SNB on the "Mic" input and External Microphones from a external Preamp into the "Line-In" ....the thread has lots of other info on this device

I bought it to do SBD/AUD MTXs using the Mic In off the SBD (using Level 65 and Low sensitivity) and the Line In off my Littlebox
so I may need to get attenuators for the SBD input... we'll see

This seems a little backwards to me...unless you have really hot mics I think mic in / low / 70 should work fine for the Littlebox's output at minimum or even moderate gain whereas a SBD could easily be too hot for the mic in without attenuation.  I realize with some preamps folks like to deliberately overdrive their internals to get euphonic distortion, necessitating high gain, but I'm not sure the Littlebox falls into that category so why not just back off the gain a little?

I think it seems a little backwards not being able to control my levels while recording
I can control the Line In with the Littlebox since I can't on the recorder while recording
but I can control the Mic In on the unit while recording
like I said, I may need attenuators... we'll see

EDIT:
we've had this discussion before and I still don't understand why someone wouldn't want to be in control of their input levels

Remember that a HOT SNB input can be tamed with a "Attenuator" too...

[F.O.Bean]

For 2 channel, hands down the M10. For 4 channel, hands down the Tascam DR2D

[Brian E.]

I love my R09HR, but I think the new hotness and best deal is the Sony M10.  I've never used one, but it seems to have replaced the Edirol as the best cheapest 24 bit option.

[YYzepp]

I recently bought my first digital audio recorder. I researched my head off and went with the Roland/Edirol R-05. The R-05 is newer and slightly cheaper than the M10. The main differences between the M10 and the R-05 are:  R-05 doesn't not have an internal speaker and comes with a 2GB card. The M10 does have a speaker and 4GB internal storage. Both units can record up to 24bit/96K.  What some folks, like myself, don't care for on the M10 is the gain dial on the side and its button layout. I scooped up an R-05 for $99 shipped from Musician's Friend. Actually, it was a gift from my sig/other so it's even better.    So far, so excellent. I know the M10 is widely respected here but I think that in time the R-05 will be too, and deservedly so. Good luck with your decision.
--
Tony
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!