Topic: External audio option needed for a Panasonic TM700 HD Cam

[Reminho]

Hello,

I am new here and I got kinda of a question. I've had my cam now for about a year (Panasonic TM700) and audio has never really been a problem. Most of the times its ok. But lately i've been taping more and more hardcore show and taped more front row. My audio mostly is distorted then wich sucks big time of course. Now i've been going through some possibilities but havent found a sollution yet. Things I considered are:

Zoom H1 or H2 = not because it seems it isnt good enough, still distortion
Sennheiser MKE400= external mic = seems not to work perfectly with panasonic cams
Olympus L5/L10/L11 = again, not sure if its really good enough for me

what do you guys think? Any advice / experiences with this shit? what is the best sollution for me?

PS: I probably not gonna pay a huge amount of money for this (200 is really max)

How do u use a recorder like olympus...without external mics, where do you put it?

thx in advance!

[beatkilla]

Does your TM 700 have a mic input And a line input?or neither?Is there audio settings in the menu like -attenuation,or disable Automatic gain control.Without those your not going to get clean audio at loud shows even with using any external mic.Most likely you need an audio recorder with seperate external mics as well as synching the audio to video afterwards in post production. There is really no other way trust me.

[F.O.Bean]

Does your TM 700 have a mic input And a line input?or neither?Is there audio settings in the menu like -attenuation,or disable Automatic gain control.Without those your not going to get clean audio at loud shows even with using any external mic.Most likely you need an audio recorder with seperate external mics as well as synching the audio to video afterwards in post production. There is really no other way trust me.

100% agreed!

[Reminho]

My panasonic has a mic input yea...not sure what a line input is. I can change the audio levels on my cam yea but I dont think my cam has those options u mentioned...

what recorder would u advice me then?

EDIT: My cam does have an AGS function I can turn on or off. What's the use of it?

[beatkilla]

Turn that off everytime .

[Reminho]

Yep its always turned off anyway. So what would be the best sollution for me in your eyes then?

[ScoobieKW]

Go to Church Audio, (he gives deals in the Retail Section on this forum) and get the best mics you can afford from him with a 9100 preamp. Discuss with him your taping environment.  Your camera has  a 2 channel mic input, so a stereo pair. Then think location. Get the mics up high.

Sometimes/Usually the best sounding spot in the room is far from where you want to be with a camera. Mount on a stand/pole/hanging bracket and put an audio recorder and mics where it sounds best. Due to clock drift you will need to sync the audio tracks in post.

[Reminho]

Ok Ill ask him! Anyone has a sollution? or is this the best one?

[beatkilla]

I like the Sony PCM M10  recorder myself.....but there's others.

MICS: What are you mostly recording?Very loud Rock  and Metal type bands up close?

I would say probably best off with some mini Cardioid mics and a Battery Box...in my opinion the preamp will just make you more likely to have distorted recordings as the purpose is to add gain to a very quiet signal which is never the case with loud PA amplified shows.


You can even run the headphone out of the Sony M10 to the cameras mic input,but that is something i Never do, i always synch the audio later in software.Thers the chance when going out of recorder to camera if your jack comes loose etc. You'll have no audio at all on your video.Good luck.

[Reminho]

Ok thx for helping!

Yes, ill record a lot genres/bands, but only need an external audio option for Hardcore shows and front row shots at for example festivals where u're close to the boxes. You think that sony recorde will be able to handle that? Do I need external mics for this one then? or is the internal good enough?

How much do mini cardioid mics cost? with a battery box...

Church audio advised me a preamp with 2 of his mics, so u think that wont do any good to my audio? Cause he says it will...

thx!

[beatkilla]

Internals are not good enough on any recorder,you need external mics and battery box absolutely.Maybe something on this board in the Yard Sale.....where are you located?

[beatkilla]

No the Church stuff is good!I just would get his ugly battery box instead of the preamp and only get the cardiod mics and not the omni's.That of course is just my opinion for what you are doing.

[Church-Audio]

Ok thx for helping!

Yes, ill record a lot genres/bands, but only need an external audio option for Hardcore shows and front row shots at for example festivals where u're close to the boxes. You think that sony recorde will be able to handle that? Do I need external mics for this one then? or is the internal good enough?

How much do mini cardioid mics cost? with a battery box...

Church audio advised me a preamp with 2 of his mics, so u think that wont do any good to my audio? Cause he says it will...

thx!

What I told you to get is what you want. You need my ca-9000 preamp for your recorder so you can attenuate the signal.... You cant use a headphone attenuator you need a buffer like a preamp.. A battery box will not work because again you need to attenuate the signal so that the AGC does not freak out in your recorder. I would not sell you something you did not need. In this application its the only way to get good audio into that cam with out overload and distortion.

[ScoobieKW]

Ok thx for helping!

Yes, ill record a lot genres/bands, but only need an external audio option for Hardcore shows and front row shots at for example festivals where u're close to the boxes. You think that sony recorde will be able to handle that? Do I need external mics for this one then? or is the internal good enough?

How much do mini cardioid mics cost? with a battery box...

Church audio advised me a preamp with 2 of his mics, so u think that wont do any good to my audio? Cause he says it will...

thx!

What I told you to get is what you want. You need my ca-9000 preamp for your recorder so you can attenuate the signal.... You cant use a headphone attenuator you need a buffer like a preamp.. A battery box will not work because again you need to attenuate the signal so that the AGC does not freak out in your recorder. I would not sell you something you did not need. In this application its the only way to get good audio into that cam with out overload and distortion.

Chris speaks from experience. While only your hardcore shows are overloading, I would bet you a beer, that you'll find that the quality of all your recordings improves if you use external mics. Higher quality components, and the ability to place them in better sounding spots than where you are shooting is key.

An example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wikWJf9RSDc was recorded with external mics, hung in the sweet spot of the room going into my Sony M10 recorder. The audio was synced with the video in post production.

[SparkE!]

What I've done in the past is to use an external battery box whose output cable is a "Y" cable with one straight-through path that I send to my primary audio recorder (like a Edirol UA-5/NJB3 combo, a Tascam DR-1, a Sony PCM-M1 or whatever other audio recorder I might be using) and the other path which I send through a specially built cable that includes enough series resistance to cause about 27 dB of attenuation when driving the input resistance of the external microphone input to the video camera.  Additionally, I include a small capacitance across the resistor so that there is a capacitive attenuator that works against the shunt capacitance of the microphone input to the video camera and whose attenuation is also 27 dB.  Your camera may need more than 27 dB of attenuation or it may need less than 27 dB of attenuation in order for it to record good audio.  My cameras are all Sonys and they all have approximately the same sensitivity at the mic inputs, so I can use my attenuator cable with any of the cameras I have.

Then when I get a really great video recording, I'll spend the time to replace the video camera's audio with the externally recorded audio. If the recording is good, but not great, then I just use the audio that the video camera recorded.  Frankly, in most cases, it's pretty hard to tell the difference between the two.

Chris's suggestion to use the CA9000 is a good one as long as you can get enough attenuation out of that amplifier to make sure you don't overload the mic input to your video camera.  I think that is almost certain to be the case because I know other people who have used the CA 9000 with their Sony video cameras, some of which are the same models as what I use with my attenuator cable.