Topic: Different recorders and use in humidity, cold, heat and other harsh environments

[Jema]

My hope for this thread is to try to gather as much information and user experience as possible about using different models of recorders in less than ideal environments, instead of having such information spread out as a sidenote in many long threads about them individually. How do they do in extreme heat and cold, moisture, problems with dust/sand etc? Maybe also a discussion of different remedies such as heat or cooling packs. This can be a help for anyone choosing equipment for such occasions, or what to expect/be aware of with the equipment they have.

For instance, going through the DR-680 threads, it is documented that it is quite susceptible to heat over the value of 40 degrees Celsius that is given by the specifications, especially if it's not given some air around it. In cold, the LCD-screen, as is true for all I think, slows down, and might get damaged if left in such temperatures for a long period of time.

I heard quite recently from an experienced film sound technician, who often records in extreme cold and rain, that the sound devices recorders does not stand up to moisture very well. Maybe not nearly as bad as lower priced alternatives, but they are not as fool-proof as I had been given the expression of. They are also not specified to be used them in sub-zero temperatures. The only recorder I know of that is built to endure in extreme cold and high moisture is the Aaton Cantar.

Maybe it's better to have several a bit cheaper back-up recorders than one more rugged, expensive one, or maybe the cheaper ones deteriorate that much faster that it's not an alternative?

From the examples, I don't want to give the impression that only the more professional recorders are in discussion here, but also hand-helds like those from sony, olympus etc.

I would especially like to hear from long time users who have spent several days or weeks using them in these conditions and can give some information about the long term reliability.

The small contribution I can make myself, is that the school I'm attending have an R-4 Pro that is used mostly for short films. During the winter it gets between -15 and -25 degrees Celsius, and it sees about 1-3 days recording in these conditions for about 2-3 projects every winter. It's been used for a few years (I'm not sure exactly how long, but at least three), and it has never shown any problems that I know of.

[andromedanwarmachine]

Hey Jema,

that's an interesting thread starter and I'd like to think it would produce some interesting responses.

However, perhaps not here. I think the vast,vast majority of forum mambers here are concert recordists, who whilst certanly enduring a bit of humidity, are not really experiencing "environmental" conditions as such. You're after a more field-recording audience for experience of dynamic environmental conditions.

I can tell you that from 21 years of digital recorder use, I've never seen a machine pack in or display a "humidity" indicator  due to external conditions. I've used pro-sumer MD & DAT gear for massive duty cycles in the jungles of Peru, deserts of Kenya & Egypt, mountains of India and suchlike. The first major problem I ever had, amusingly was when I progressed to a "pro" MD deck (by a manufacturer who will remain nameless but begins with "M") which just didn't seem to like updating the UTOC after a take. It had endured alot of dust though.

I'll be interested to see what comes back on this thread though!

JimP

[Jema]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'm aware that maybe I'm not posting at the most appropriate place since most people here might not have the kind of experience I'm looking for. But I know that some hanging around might, and since I was also interested in lower budget recorders this is one of the places where there's most information about them. Some may also have some experience from music festivals that lasts for several days, or touring.

[page]

On the cold side, the one time I was planning on being in the real cold with my 722, I had looked at using chemical hand warmers to get everything started and then relying on the machine having been running for a while (since it gets warm/hot after a while anyway) to sustain it for a couple extra hours. It's rated for a cold temperature and between the bag insulation and it having been running for a while, I figured I could get away with it. Opted not to take my gear with me that trip so I never tested it.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Definitely an interesting thread topic.  As the worst my recorders have ever been subjected to is running in my pocket while stealthing a show, I can't really contribute any harsh environment stories.  Since the lot of us mostly record concerts, there's probably a lot of anecdotes about decks getting beers dumped on them.

[rowjimmytour]

Heat used to be a issue for me at HSMF in Quincy CA fourth of July weekend when some times it reach 107 My NJ3 would shut down after a while when it was this hot or if you packed it inside a bag and did not allow it to breath. Once I bought a R4 before I got out of taping problem was solved

[fleish]

Other harsh environments ... like an Insane Clown Posse show?

I've also not run any gear in a very uncomfortable place ... like the back of a Volvo

Sorry, I've got nothing useful to contribute, but I couldn't resist. Tip your waitress and try the veal.

[jbell]

A friend that taped at the LEAF festival this past fall and the temps where cold told me his R09HR ran through AA's!!  IIRC he was getting about 1/2  maybe even less battery life he would normally get.  Sorry not much help.

[F.O.Bean]

My old Sony D8 DAT back in the day[moedown 2001] got a lil too wet and wouldnt work for 3 days because of moisture. Luckily another taper let me use his D8 for the rest of the weekend

I would think the 7xx series are far superior than most companies outside of Anton Cantar/Nagra/etc...and I owned one for around 5 years and it held up in some NASTY conditions and never even bleeped anything up

[F.O.Bean]

A friend that taped at the LEAF festival this past fall and the temps where cold told me his R09HR ran through AA's!!  IIRC he was getting about 1/2  maybe even less battery life he would normally get.  Sorry not much help.

Batteries do that when moist as well. I ran my new M10 last year at moedown and it held up flawlessly in the torrential downpour that occured on Sunday of the fest. I just had it in a thick 5ml garbage bag and when it calmed down weather wise a lil bit, we started running again

[flintstone]

This is a reasonable question.  40C is 104F.  It's easy to get to this temp if the recorder is left in the direct sun on a warm day.  The daytime air temp in the shade is higher than 100F for several months a year in Phoenix and Las Vegas.  So it's likely that tapers will experience this situation from time to time.

The LCD tends to go completely dark when heated to temps above 100F.  Fortunately, it returns to normal once it cools off.

Dust and grit are problems for mechanical switches.  Humidity can cause short circuits.  That's why people carry a backup recorder.

[bryonsos]

The first night at Shakori last fall. The temperature dropped suddenly and dramatically leading to insane amounts of dew. Just opening the bag resulted in immediate visible condensation on all my gear. I spent the last ~3 hrs of the evening wiping things off periodically, I even had to shake the moisture out of my Dead Muppets a few times in between bands. The M10 rolled right through it all, as did my MixPre. As a precaution, I let everything sunbathe for a couple hours in the morning to dry out. Everything fired up fine for day 2, and I got some smokin tapes taboot!

[LikeASong]

For those who are concerned about recording in high temperatures... I live in Spain and here we reach pretty high temperatures (easily over 42ºC/110ºF in the hottest days of Summer), and the times I've had to use any digital gear in such conditions (e.g. a videocamera with a minidisc&sony ECM DS70P mic providing audio feed) I've successfully kept all the gear -the MD was lying on a closed bag!- fresh and in perfect working order using small fan coolers like this one:



This particular one is powered by the dock connector of an iPod/iPhone, but there are some that operate on their own (with AAA bateries or even sun batteries), or powered by USB, or whatever.

[cybergaloot]

I've run my R-44 in as low as 25 degrees F and as high as the upper 90's. I've also run it in the rain, in a bag covered by a large plastic trash bag. I've also run it many times in very dusty conditions. Somewhere along the line it got a cracked solder joint on one of the pots but a few touches with a hot soldering iron seems to have fixed that. It was dropped once well before that problem occured. When I have it in the bright Florida sun on hot days I do cover it loosely with a hand towel.

My old "lame" Zoom H2 has also run in similar conditions as well as being knocked off a bar onto a concrete floor. Still runs ok.

[notlance]

It is pretty easy to find examples of Sound Devices recorders being used in extreme conditions, including low temps and high humidity.  Here are just a few:

http://www.daveruddicksound.com/images/Audio_at_18_Below.pdf
http://www.p3update.com/production/audio/752-production-sound-
http://www.daveruddicksound.com/images/D.V_Magazine.pdf
http://www.dv.com/article/86976
http://www.btlnews.com/news/sound-mixer-david-husby-relies-on-sound-devices/

Now there may be other less expensive recorders that are also reliable in extreme conditions, but I believe the SD recorders have proved themselves in the field.