Topic: new taper needs some help

[phish_sticks]

Hey guys, I was just told about the site so figured id check it out and so far i've already learned a bit lol Im completely knew to taping so all of this seems like a foreign language so far. I always thought it was cool the people who went to shows and taped and always wanted to get into it but never really had the money or any knowledge in music gear and recording.

Well recently a friend of mine gifted me a brand new Tascam DR-40. I started playing with it the other night and its pretty cool. I took it to a small show (a phish cover band) at a bar in the city and set it up on a table and it recorded pretty good. only 1 problem was that you could hear a lot of the crowd. How do I stop that?

I was told that if I wanted to record a bigger show like phish I should get some mics to use instead of the built in ones. Im just curious how big the difference is?

Basically could ya guys help a noob out? I hate being a noob and asking for help but i've been researching and ive come to a stand still with this. Thanks and much appreciated guys!

[rjp]

A general rule here is that external mics are a Good Thing, no matter what. In any case, getting the mics off the table and into the air will help a lot. External mics and a tall stand with a stereo mounting bar are necessities.

With the DR-40, you can plug phantom-powered condenser mics directly into the unit. However, there are zillions of different mic choices available, and what to get depends a lot on your budget - the sky's the limit. Some mics (usually large-diaphragm) have switchable patterns, and many small-diaphragm mics have interchangeable capsules for different patterns.

Look in some of the "sticky" threads for answers to frequently asked questions.

[JackoRoses]

I took it to a small show (a phish cover band) at a bar in the city and set it up on a table and it recorded pretty good. only 1 problem was that you could hear a lot of the crowd. How do I stop that?

Crowd noise is something you will always have to deal with when recording in an audience. Get your mics away from the crowd and give yourself space away from the chatty kathies

I was told that if I wanted to record a bigger show like phish I should get some mics to use instead of the built in ones. Im just curious how big the difference is?

The difference is huge. Internal mics have their purpose, like if you were a news reporter shoving it front of someones face for a quote.
If you want to record concerts and get a listenable recording, you will need decent mics and a mic stand to get above the talkers heads. Or glue your device to a speaker stack J/K

[daspyknows]

I took it to a small show (a phish cover band) at a bar in the city and set it up on a table and it recorded pretty good. only 1 problem was that you could hear a lot of the crowd. How do I stop that?

Crowd noise is something you will always have to deal with when recording in an audience. Get your mics away from the crowd and give yourself space away from the chatty kathies

I was told that if I wanted to record a bigger show like phish I should get some mics to use instead of the built in ones. Im just curious how big the difference is?

The difference is huge. Internal mics have their purpose, like if you were a news reporter shoving it front of someones face for a quote.
If you want to record concerts and get a listenable recording, you will need decent mics and a mic stand to get above the talkers heads. Or glue your device to a speaker stack J/K

lol, a mic stand is definitely optional.  I don't own a mic stand.   External mics are not

[JackoRoses]

lol, a mic stand is definitely optional.  I don't own a mic stand.   External mics are not

You speak the truth, I have plenty of lovely recordings that the person was the stand. My angle I'm coming from is the guy is new.
SO yes the stand is completely optional but if you can use one; it can't hurt as they do help.
I don't know if he is jedi material like you Daspy hence my posting.

[yousef]

One of the most important lessons I learned early on in taping is the enormous difference the height of the mics makes.

And not just in terms of flying them way up on stands: the huge difference between chest>shoulders>head - only a few inches in each case (unless you're particularly oddly-proportioned) but a world of difference at each step.

Im completely knew to taping so all of this seems like a foreign language so far. I always thought it was cool the people who went to shows and taped and always wanted to get into it

The cool people? I thought we were the nerds, the bores and the borderline autistic... Which is not to say it isn't a fantastic and rewarding hobby 

[Big Perm]

What everyone said is true. However if you want to record Phish or other big shows, a stand or a good clamp will be wanted. As far as mics go, It all depends on budget. What is yours? There is a lot of good stuff in the YS right now but it depends on what you want to spend.

[lastubbe]

Get some AT 4041's and an all in one deck.  Easy setup, reasonable cost, and sound will be excellent.

AT 4041's can be hand on ebay for around $400 a pair new.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-NEW-2-PACK-STEREO-AT4041-AT-4041-STUDIO-CONDENSER-GUITAR-MICS-/251025384835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a72476583#ht_535wt_1141

Grab a Tascam HDP2 or a Fostex FR2LE, a stand to fly then high, some accessories and you're good.  You'll need a $1,000 to get into this.  There are other options if your budget is less.  Church Audio on this site makes some great products as well.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

The cool people? I thought we were the nerds, the bores and the borderline autistic... Which is not to say it isn't a fantastic and rewarding hobby 

  LMAO and QFT!

[Teen Age Riot]

I was told that if I wanted to record a bigger show like phish I should get some mics to use instead of the built in ones. Im just curious how big the difference is?

I agree with everyone else that external mics would be preferable.
Since you've mentioned Phish, as an alternative to using built-in mics you could politely ask other tapers for a patch. That means you'd be recording a feed from someone else's rig.
Of course that only works for certain "taper bands" (such as Phish), and I'm not saying you shouldn't get your own quality gear, but in case you can't spend a lot of money before the next big show, it might be a good way to avoid the internal mics and get a better recording.

[bombdiggity]

Depends on what and how you're taping but as a noob I'd suggest Sound Professionals CMC-25's.  You will find you like these even after you have high end gear (if you ever feel the need to go there after getting these).  Under $300 new.  You will also never see them in the Yard Sale  ... 

Simple(!), clip on (the clips are supplied with them), tiny, perfect for stealth situations, will handle almost any level of sound (loud or very quiet), no mic stand, no huge setup, no crate full of gear, no hassles, fast delivery, and they're rugged so should last.  Just clip them to your collar and you're ready to roll (keep still, don't talk and don't touch them).  Did I say simple?  They sound great.  For rock shows (and even a lot of quiet jazz) they're perfect.  Pretty directional so will lose a lot of the crowd, but clear so if you're in a bar (or concert hall) where people regard the music as incidental background then you will still get the crowd (as you will with any mic). 

You already have a recorder, though maybe not the best match to a simple rig...  Most lower end, small mic rigs use a stereo minijack, which that recorder doesn't seem to accept, so you'd need adapters for the SP or Church or other tiny mics.  So your recorder is geared more toward a high end, open taping, left-right (XLR) setup.   

You might want to get the SP battery box to go with these mics if you do loud shows.  They may be able to hard wire the appropriate connectors for that recorder on the output end of the battery box for you. 

If you're on DIME or other trackers you can find a lot of samples of these in action.  Many months of listening to a lot of recordings on these sorts of mics is how I decided to get them rather than other potential choices. 

If on the other hand you always attend open taping shows and have a lot of money to drop (not that $300 is insignificant, but it is insignificant in the realm of high-end gear like that which most people here use) then you may want to get the big rig... 

[eman]

Check out this stuff in the Yard Sale. I have AT853's and love the clean tone I get. I have found these hypers to be better capsules overall, perhaps the microphone just works better with these. The setup comes with both hypers and cardioids, and battery boxes. They are "electeret condensers" which require a mid range of power more voltage (5-10V) than what an battery powered mic such as the AT822 takes, but if you power them with phantom (25-40V) they will fry. I like my AT822 stereo mic too but the 853's are far better.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152459.15

[manida]

I posted this in another thread:

total newb here as well.  Im building up my first rig now.  I'd been thinking of recording shows for 20 years now and finally took the plunge.

I bought the Tascam DR-2d for around $120
Bought (from a member here) a set of used AT853s (w/ the 4.7k mod terminated to a 3.5mm miniplug) for $135
I just ordered a CA9100 pre amp for this setup, around $165 I think it was

Im around $420 into it so far.  Which, for now, is totally good enough for me.

so, my setup will soon be:  AT853s>CA9100>Tascam DR-2d  (damn, I always wanted to be able to post a lineage of my own!)

Still need to figure out a mounting setup, some other cables, mic stand and a bag or gun box to store everything....

[F.O.Bean]

I agree with what everyone has said