Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)

[jbell]

Just my experience running the Sony D50 and M10.  The D50 is 6 and can handle a hotter signal, but the M10 needs to be dialed back some and I usually keep it at 4.  Usually people say between 4-5 like bryonsos suggested. 

Sorry for my lameness....  but can anyone verify what the "unity gain" setting is?
Any advice or quirks that an M10 newbee should know?
Thanks.

jmbell says 4, I've read 5 just as often. I've even seen 6 a couple of times. With most folks saying 4-5, I've been running at 4.5 with good results. It's in there somewhere

[willndmb]

i have seen 3 much more then 5
i did my own test withh white noise and it came back as 4 every time
(white noise settings feed via line in at -10, -5, and 0db)
changing to 3, 2, 1 or 5, 6, 7 and so one changed the db by 2-3db each number
so for example going from 4-6 would add 5-6db of gain

[udovdh]

See http://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm for some measurements.

[adrianf74]

I know GuySonic did measurements on this back in the day and I think the number that was agreed to is somewhere around 4.5 (which is where I've run from day one).  I've had ZERO issues running there.  I've also run at 4 and 5 on occasion but 4.5 was a good starting point.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Time to repeat the old mantra:

"Unity" is merely a guide and the concept ignores the internal design and implementation of the recorder.

Use the setting and combination of gain/attenuation that *sounds best* with your specific gear.

As others have said, 4 is in the ballpark.

Does it sound better at 3, with a bit more gain on your front-end?  Maybe.  Does it sound better at 6, with less gain on the front-end?  Quite possibly - especially if the source material is very quiet.

[earmonger]

See http://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm for some measurements.

He lists the mics as cards, but they are omnis.

And...am I misreading this?  Is he saying unity gain (0 dB attenuation) is at 10?

[ScoobieKW]

See http://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm for some measurements.

He lists the mics as cards, but they are omnis.

And...am I misreading this?  Is he saying unity gain (0 dB attenuation) is at 10?

Welcome to the World of Ken Rockwell. His camera reviews aren't much better.

[aaronji]

And...am I misreading this?  Is he saying unity gain (0 dB attenuation) is at 10?

I think he is using the 10 setting as his baseline; the other numbers are referenced to that.  He could have set the (arbitrary) reference point to any gain setting and that setting would then have had a relative attenuation (and relative gain) of 0 dB...

Another inaccuracy in his review is that he says you can get "Unlimited Eternal recording by letting the internal memory cover you during card swaps".  The manual, though, specifically says that you shouldn't remove or insert a memory card while recording or playing back files.

[bluewingolive]

Been having fun making outdoor recordings with the M10.  I set it up at night.  I run a Sony single mid-side mic (ECM-MS908C ?) with a long cable in to the house where the M10 sits.  I listen back to the pull, at work.  Get all kinds of great night time symphonies....crickets, toads, cows, fox, owls, jets, trains, cars, firweworks.   Just goofin around with it.  Anyone else try it?

[Ultfris101]

Been having fun making outdoor recordings with the M10.  I set it up at night.  I run a Sony single mid-side mic (ECM-MS908C ?) with a long cable in to the house where the M10 sits.  I listen back to the pull, at work.  Get all kinds of great night time symphonies....crickets, toads, cows, fox, owls, jets, trains, cars, firweworks.   Just goofin around with it.  Anyone else try it?

Cool idea. I need to try that.

Wonder if my tree frogs are open taping or I'll need to stealth.

My M10 has been a great recorder to start with. Very simple and seems relatively forgiving. Never owned one or done any serious recording on my own other than when I was a kid and tried to record a Bowie concert off HBO by holding a tape recorder up to the speaker. I wish I had kept at it then but better late than never.

[DigiGal]

Been having fun making outdoor recordings with the M10.  I set it up at night.  I run a Sony single mid-side mic (ECM-MS908C ?) with a long cable in to the house where the M10 sits.  I listen back to the pull, at work.  Get all kinds of great night time symphonies....crickets, toads, cows, fox, owls, jets, trains, cars, firweworks.   Just goofin around with it.  Anyone else try it?

Cool idea. I need to try that.

Wonder if my tree frogs are open taping or I'll need to stealth.

My M10 has been a great recorder to start with. Very simple and seems relatively forgiving. Never owned one or done any serious recording on my own other than when I was a kid and tried to record a Bowie concert off HBO by holding a tape recorder up to the speaker. I wish I had kept at it then but better late than never.

Better stealth it, Warner Brothers has it in this guy's rider to stop singing for crowds of more than one.




This guy used to allow open taping but his wife made him stop!

[bluewingolive]

Classic DigiGal!!!   

[eman]

Is it just me, or does "sensitivity (att)" make no sense at all? High sensitivity would seem to mean low attenuation, so you'd want to label that switch as one or the other, attenuation being what it actually is but labeled backwards. Also, this is labeled as mic sensitivity so presumably that doesn't affec the line in? Or is this why my Reggae On The Rocks recording came out overloaded?

[Lostbrook]

Greetings.  First post here.  I've been lurking for a few weeks out of curiosity about the current state of the art, and it bit me - I started salivating over the idea of owning a Sony M10.  The absurd thing is that I rarely go to concerts anymore!  This will probably motivate me to get back in the game. I think I would receive at least honorable mention in the category of "Waited Ridiculously Long To Upgrade." 

So the M10 arrived yesterday and it's gorgeous.  I've been doing some tests with the home stereo and I'm excited about its potential.  I'll be testing it out at an amplified acoustic show in a coffee shop environment next week.  I've read all six parts of this thread.  The information is impressive but my brain has gone numb.  Here's what I'm planning:

Internal Mics (will buy external later this year)
24/48
Manual Mode
Levels close to -12 (maybe creep towards -6?)
LCF Off
Limiter On (don't plan on getting anywhere near it)
Mic Sensitivity...Low?

I seem to remember a post that recommended against high sensitivity in any environment but I can't bring myself to search for it again. My home tests sound good either way, as long as I adjust the record level of course.  Is there any reason to avoid high sens when using internals or does it all depend on the volume in the room.  It might be loud for an acoustic show, but it won't be overpowering.

Thanks!

Lost Brook 

[eman]

If you don't plan on getting near the limit, you might as well not use it. The problem is that if you use the limiter you won't be able to tell when it kicks in. I've heard too many recordings that sound like crap because of limiters.

One great feature of the M10 I didn't notice for a few shows was the dB level in the top right corner- it shows the recent peak level in dB.

Using the internal mics, at least take advantage of the 1/4-20 threaded mounting hole on the bottom. Get a stand or at least a clamp to fix this in one place, over the crowd. BH Photo has mounting solutions.