Topic: Help a noob pick gear>>>

[oldjoe38]

So I play drums in a band that gigs regularly at least twice a week. I've been looking into things like the dr40, m10, and zoomq3hd to start archiving recordings of our shows. I am looking for a moderate priced set up with pretty solid sound clarity that is extremely easy to use being that I have to play the drums while it records. Any suggestions?

[achalsey]

Church Audio is the generally the most recommended beginner set up here.  Its how many of us, myself included, started out.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141135.0

CA-14 > 9100 (or 9200) > M10 is an incredibly solid set up.  Altogether probably set you back about 500 bucks if you get both card and omni mics.  Maybe less if you go bare bones.

They're tiny and super easy to put anywhere.  With a couple pieces of tape you can pretty much improvise a 5 minute set up almost anywhere you are.

One of the major downsides is his build time is generally at least a month so be prepared to wait if you do order from him.

Edit:  this is one of my favorite recordings I made with my CA-14:  http://archive.org/details/jcm2011-08-07.CA14.flac16


This is also a very nice beginner set up, just add recorder:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155473.0

The Littlebox is discontinued but an amazing preamp.

[oldjoe38]

So is a single unit setup just like placing a dr40 not a good way to go? On a somewhat tight budget...

[achalsey]

So is a single unit setup just like placing a dr40 not a good way to go? On a somewhat tight budget...

Not ideal and not what most here would advise.  Its doable and plenty of people seem to be fine with the internal mics on recorders (just see the DIME fluffers thread  ), but external mics are recommended.

[oldjoe38]

So basically you are buying the recorder for its storage capabilities? I own an older archos av320 that I could run two mics through a mixer and then an out into the archos if that is the case....

[achalsey]

So basically you are buying the recorder for its storage capabilities?

Certain types of recorders, yes.  But other recorders are "all-in-one" recorders (like the DR-40) that have solid onboard preamps and can provide phantom power so you can plug P48 mics directly into them.  I cannot comment on the quality of the preamps on the DR-40, or really anything more about that recorder.  Another in the same category you may want to look at is the Tascam Dr100 MKii (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152321.0)  Most other all in one recorders will probably be out of your price range I think. (fostex fr-2le, marantz 661)

The M10, on the other end is basically just used for its storage capabilities (and A/D converter).

I own an older archos av320 that I could run two mics through a mixer and then an out into the archos if that is the case....

I have not heard of that before but from a quick google search I don't think that would be very helpful.  Is it just an MP3 recorder?

[ScoobieKW]

The archos does record PCM WAV at 16bit 48K.

You basically have 3 parts of your problem.

1. The mics. - Church Audio CA-14 are small, sound great and aren't too expensive, I'd get cardioids first, but the omnis are worth getting too. Sometimes Chris runs a special with a bundle.
2. Mic power/preamp - For rock music, a battery box should be sufficient, a preamp would provide mic power and add gain.
3. Recorder - Modern recorders record at 24bits instead of the 16 bits of the Archos. This is a very good thing as it means you get a 50% increase in the resolution when it comes to gain. more steps between quietest and loudest. This allows you to play conservative with your gain settings, knowing that you can't monitor or change settings while playing. As long as you end up with a peak volume between -12db and 0db on your recorder you have enough to make a very good 16 bit CD or MP3 recording. The Sony M10 is very popular on this board as it isn't too expensive ($220) has a very quiet, clean preamp and incredible battery life. At recommended settings you can record 4 hours on the onboard memory or add a MicroSD card and add up to 32gb more memory.

[acidjack]

The archos does record PCM WAV at 16bit 48K.

You basically have 3 parts of your problem.

1. The mics. - Church Audio CA-14 are small, sound great and aren't too expensive, I'd get cardioids first, but the omnis are worth getting too. Sometimes Chris runs a special with a bundle.
2. Mic power/preamp - For rock music, a battery box should be sufficient, a preamp would provide mic power and add gain.
3. Recorder - Modern recorders record at 24bits instead of the 16 bits of the Archos. This is a very good thing as it means you get a 50% increase in the resolution when it comes to gain. more steps between quietest and loudest. This allows you to play conservative with your gain settings, knowing that you can't monitor or change settings while playing. As long as you end up with a peak volume between -12db and 0db on your recorder you have enough to make a very good 16 bit CD or MP3 recording. The Sony M10 is very popular on this board as it isn't too expensive ($220) has a very quiet, clean preamp and incredible battery life. At recommended settings you can record 4 hours on the onboard memory or add a MicroSD card and add up to 32gb more memory.

Agree with all of this; I'd only add:

- Between using a recorder with internal mics and buying some new mics and a battery box and running them into the Archos, I'd do the latter.
- Assuming your band is somewhat loud, most of these internal mics on these machines will distort (the SPL ratings on the recorders are basically meaningless).  Those recorders are designed for recording lectures, mostly, not for recording a rock band or other loud band.   And the recorders that have high enough quality mics to not distort, well, most of them IIRC cost more than CA-14/battery box/cheap new recorder (like the Tascam DR-08).

[oldjoe38]

So you think since I already have the Archos AV320 I should just buy two mics and a battery box and go that route? Can you recommend some battery boxes. Like I said, I'm new to this. Do these battery boxes have an XLR in and a 1/4" or 1/8" out that I can run directly into the Archos?

The archos does record PCM WAV at 16bit 48K.

You basically have 3 parts of your problem.

1. The mics. - Church Audio CA-14 are small, sound great and aren't too expensive, I'd get cardioids first, but the omnis are worth getting too. Sometimes Chris runs a special with a bundle.
2. Mic power/preamp - For rock music, a battery box should be sufficient, a preamp would provide mic power and add gain.
3. Recorder - Modern recorders record at 24bits instead of the 16 bits of the Archos. This is a very good thing as it means you get a 50% increase in the resolution when it comes to gain. more steps between quietest and loudest. This allows you to play conservative with your gain settings, knowing that you can't monitor or change settings while playing. As long as you end up with a peak volume between -12db and 0db on your recorder you have enough to make a very good 16 bit CD or MP3 recording. The Sony M10 is very popular on this board as it isn't too expensive ($220) has a very quiet, clean preamp and incredible battery life. At recommended settings you can record 4 hours on the onboard memory or add a MicroSD card and add up to 32gb more memory.

Agree with all of this; I'd only add:

- Between using a recorder with internal mics and buying some new mics and a battery box and running them into the Archos, I'd do the latter.
- Assuming your band is somewhat loud, most of these internal mics on these machines will distort (the SPL ratings on the recorders are basically meaningless).  Those recorders are designed for recording lectures, mostly, not for recording a rock band or other loud band.   And the recorders that have high enough quality mics to not distort, well, most of them IIRC cost more than CA-14/battery box/cheap new recorder (like the Tascam DR-08).

[oldjoe38]

Also, I own a Rode NT1A condenser. How good of a setup would i have if I bought the dr40 and ran a single nt1a as my setup? Do you recommend the dr40 of the MKii?

[acidjack]

So you think since I already have the Archos AV320 I should just buy two mics and a battery box and go that route? Can you recommend some battery boxes. Like I said, I'm new to this. Do these battery boxes have an XLR in and a 1/4" or 1/8" out that I can run directly into the Archos?

The archos does record PCM WAV at 16bit 48K.

You basically have 3 parts of your problem.

1. The mics. - Church Audio CA-14 are small, sound great and aren't too expensive, I'd get cardioids first, but the omnis are worth getting too. Sometimes Chris runs a special with a bundle.
2. Mic power/preamp - For rock music, a battery box should be sufficient, a preamp would provide mic power and add gain.
3. Recorder - Modern recorders record at 24bits instead of the 16 bits of the Archos. This is a very good thing as it means you get a 50% increase in the resolution when it comes to gain. more steps between quietest and loudest. This allows you to play conservative with your gain settings, knowing that you can't monitor or change settings while playing. As long as you end up with a peak volume between -12db and 0db on your recorder you have enough to make a very good 16 bit CD or MP3 recording. The Sony M10 is very popular on this board as it isn't too expensive ($220) has a very quiet, clean preamp and incredible battery life. At recommended settings you can record 4 hours on the onboard memory or add a MicroSD card and add up to 32gb more memory.

Agree with all of this; I'd only add:

- Between using a recorder with internal mics and buying some new mics and a battery box and running them into the Archos, I'd do the latter.
- Assuming your band is somewhat loud, most of these internal mics on these machines will distort (the SPL ratings on the recorders are basically meaningless).  Those recorders are designed for recording lectures, mostly, not for recording a rock band or other loud band.   And the recorders that have high enough quality mics to not distort, well, most of them IIRC cost more than CA-14/battery box/cheap new recorder (like the Tascam DR-08).

Church Audio makes a very simple battery box for $39.  If you want something a bit more sturdy-looking (Chris' design leaves the battery itself fully exposed) try the Sound Professionals SPSB-8 or one of their other boxes. They all have 1/8" stereo mini outs.

[acidjack]

Also, I own a Rode NT1A condenser. How good of a setup would i have if I bought the dr40 and ran a single nt1a as my setup? Do you recommend the dr40 of the MKii?

The NT1 is only a  single-channel mic, isn't it?  If that's the case, then no, I would not think running a single one would be good at all.  Adding internal mics to the mix would not help.

I've never run the DR-40 so I do not know if it is good or not. My opinion of Tascam's products generally is that they are very uneven in quality and are frequently overcomplicated and/or inconsistent to use (peruse threads about the DR-680 and a few new posts about the digital inputs to the DR-100mkII, among others).

I think the cheapest way to achieve the best sound quality is to keep the Archos you have (I'm not familiar with them, but if it records at least 16bit/48kHz through the line-in jack and has a way to adjust the input levels, I think it's probably fine) and add some CA-14s and some kind of battery box.

Anyone who disagrees, please speak up!

[ScoobieKW]

Also, I own a Rode NT1A condenser. How good of a setup would i have if I bought the dr40 and ran a single nt1a as my setup? Do you recommend the dr40 of the MKii?

You would have a nice mono setup.  B&H has the DR40 for $150 US right now.

I'd recommend starting with that, and then when you can afford it getting a stereo pair of some sort. Church CA-14s, Busman BSC1 and Rode NT5 are some nice options. The Busman BSC1 set has the advantage that you get interchangable capsules. Also as a drummer do you have a pair of small diaphram condensors? The same qualities that make good overheads make good audience mics.

[oldjoe38]

I just got an offer from zzounds for 145 for the dr40. I do not have a pair of SDC's. Also just got offered a dr40 from a buddy at guitar center for 155....I'm so overwhelmed haha

Also, I own a Rode NT1A condenser. How good of a setup would i have if I bought the dr40 and ran a single nt1a as my setup? Do you recommend the dr40 of the MKii?

You would have a nice mono setup.  B&H has the DR40 for $150 US right now.

I'd recommend starting with that, and then when you can afford it getting a stereo pair of some sort. Church CA-14s, Busman BSC1 and Rode NT5 are some nice options. The Busman BSC1 set has the advantage that you get interchangable capsules. Also as a drummer do you have a pair of small diaphram condensors? The same qualities that make good overheads make good audience mics.

[eman]

It is hard to make a good recording and play in a band. One route to consider is two cheap recorders, one for the sbd, and one for the room. Usually one of these will be way better than the other, and there's no telling which one. Often they can be combined in post to make an awesome recording that blends the strengths of each.

Or, with one recorder, you could set up your Rode on stage or near the stage (20 feet from stage you run into delay issues), run it through the snake, and use a group out (that isn't punched into the mains) to record everything and the Rode. You'd have to do some trial and error to find a good balance but if you have a regular gig this can be gradually worked out.