Topic: Matrix? SNB-Stage Lip-Audience inputs to one mix

[Hypnocracy]

I've been very happy with the results of mixing stage lip and Audience microphones for Bar shows that have good sound...I even have stooped to taking a SNB Feed instead of using the Audience microphones for Matrix in rooms I know that have shitty sounding PA's and been happy with the result.

The only complaint I have is that it seems I get great stage lip recordings of Guitar/Bass/Drum and the Vocals-Horns-Keys suffer (I.E.they are lower volume). When mixed with the Aud source that seems to skew the mix toward the Guitar/Bass/Drum.

How can I get better levels on the Stage Lip for the Vocal/Horn/Key's...for the Horn and Keys occasionally It seems that I get one but not the other...but not much vocal's ever

If I have 4 channels...for the good sounding rooms could I run a Audience Stereo Pair Microphones...then run Stage Lip Mic only for the Guitar/Bass/Drum on one channel and get a mono feed from the SNB for Vocal/Horn/Key's on the other channel?

I'd most likely split the Stage Lip/SNB to mono tracks and mix it into the Stereo Pair. 

What are the pitfalls...or should I just go KISS and run Stage Lip/SNB?

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I'd expect in small venues that the onstage and soundboard feeds to be very different sounding. The stuff that's loud on stage should be quiet in the PA mix and vice-versa. Your room mics are capturing those two sources combined (effectively) in terms of a mix and thats what I'd try and recreate through separate sources (the stage sound and the soundboard/PA feed).

[acidjack]

The other thing you can do - the "poor man's soundboard", if you will, is keep your stage lip pair and mic near or close to one of the PA stacks, which is of course just outputting the board feed and is probably close to mono anyway.   Sometimes that is logistically less complicated than trying to run the SBD patch and onstage at the same time, depending on the room.  If you have some small omnis like CA-14s or whatever they can be perfect for this.

[page]

The other thing you can do - the "poor man's soundboard", if you will, is keep your stage lip pair and mic near or close to one of the PA stacks, which is of course just outputting the board feed and is probably close to mono anyway.   Sometimes that is logistically less complicated than trying to run the SBD patch and onstage at the same time, depending on the room.  If you have some small omnis like CA-14s or whatever they can be perfect for this.

+1

Just make sure you have mics that can take a hot SPL load before clipping if you put them real close to the stack.

[Gutbucket]

+2


Also, consider setting up your on-stage or stage-lip array so it favors the keyboard amp, horns or whatever is lower in level over the louder instruments.  Stage guitar cabinets project quite directionally and can be loud and focused on-axis even from way across the stage.  Moving even slightly off-axis to them can make a big difference.  Yet there is only so far you can go in balancing by moving the stage-lip pair around, so letting it catch what can be caught best from that position and figuring on getting good vocals and other bits elsewhere (SBD, monitor mic, or AUD) is a good safe bet.  My primary focus in juggling an on-stage or stage-lip setup around is often good, clear, direct drum kit (usually aiming for a direct line of sight to the snare)- a detail and transient rich source that really benefits from that positioning rather than back in the AUD or through the SBD.

[Hypnocracy]

I'd expect in small venues that the onstage and soundboard feeds to be very different sounding. The stuff that's loud on stage should be quiet in the PA mix and vice-versa. Your room mics are capturing those two sources combined (effectively) in terms of a mix and thats what I'd try and recreate through separate sources (the stage sound and the soundboard/PA feed).

True...on one of the best results I've got...if you listen to the SNB feed it is missing the Guitar/Base/Drum which is nice and full in the Stage Lip channels...I guess that is how that sound man mixes for the small room

The other thing you can do - the "poor man's soundboard", if you will, is keep your stage lip pair and mic near or close to one of the PA stacks, which is of course just outputting the board feed and is probably close to mono anyway.   Sometimes that is logistically less complicated than trying to run the SBD patch and onstage at the same time, depending on the room.  If you have some small omnis like CA-14s or whatever they can be perfect for this.

Stack Taping is one thing I've not done...always was afraid I'd only get one speaker of the stack and no High or Low freq...where do you position your microphones?

[Hypnocracy]

+2


Also, consider setting up your on-stage or stage-lip array so it favors the keyboard amp, horns or whatever is lower in level over the louder instruments.  Stage guitar cabinets project quite directionally and can be loud and focused on-axis even from way across the stage.  Moving even slightly off-axis to them can make a big difference.  Yet there is only so far you can go in balancing by moving the stage-lip pair around, so letting it catch what can be caught best from that position and figuring on getting good vocals and other bits elsewhere (SBD, monitor mic, or AUD) is a good safe bet.  My primary focus in juggling an on-stage or stage-lip setup around is often good, clear, direct drum kit (usually aiming for a direct line of sight to the snare)- a detail and transient rich source that really benefits from that positioning rather than back in the AUD or through the SBD.

I've done stereo pairs as stage lip...but find I like the Omni sound better and have just done a split pair...with 3ft to 20ft of spread...tend to go with the wider these days in an attempt to get Keys/Horns and less drum

[acidjack]

I'd expect in small venues that the onstage and soundboard feeds to be very different sounding. The stuff that's loud on stage should be quiet in the PA mix and vice-versa. Your room mics are capturing those two sources combined (effectively) in terms of a mix and thats what I'd try and recreate through separate sources (the stage sound and the soundboard/PA feed).

True...on one of the best results I've got...if you listen to the SNB feed it is missing the Guitar/Base/Drum which is nice and full in the Stage Lip channels...I guess that is how that sound man mixes for the small room

The other thing you can do - the "poor man's soundboard", if you will, is keep your stage lip pair and mic near or close to one of the PA stacks, which is of course just outputting the board feed and is probably close to mono anyway.   Sometimes that is logistically less complicated than trying to run the SBD patch and onstage at the same time, depending on the room.  If you have some small omnis like CA-14s or whatever they can be perfect for this.

Stack Taping is one thing I've not done...always was afraid I'd only get one speaker of the stack and no High or Low freq...where do you position your microphones?

With an omni, at about 5-10ft I feel like you are getting the "right" mix and don't have to worry TOO much (at least, in the places where I have done this). I guess I'd say, depending on the stack, try to be in between the woofer and the tweeter so you don't lose a bunch of high end.

[Gutbucket]

I've done stereo pairs as stage lip...but find I like the Omni sound better and have just done a split pair...with 3ft to 20ft of spread...tend to go with the wider these days in an attempt to get Keys/Horns and less drum

I like omnis at stage-lip too.. so in that case adjust the pair location along the lip by sliding the pair towards the keys/horns and away from the guitar amps/drums.  A wide omni split can work if you are planning on mixing it with something else which will provide center 'glue', especially if that helps you to better balance a central drum kit with keys horns to either side.  That center glue in your case is likely to be a SBD (predominately mono, strong on vocals and perfect for reinforcing a weak middle), your AUD, or you might try using a third omni- centrally placed along the stage-lip.  Pan it center and adjust it's level as appropriate to balance the drums on mixdown.