Solid Multitrack Recorder for SBD (stealthing unnecessary)

[RoganSarine]

This doesn't really seem to fit in "Recording Gear" since it's not reference to "Portable (in the usual battery sense)" or a "Studio" recorder...

But, as most people here recommend the Sony M10 for microphone inputs, I was wondering what they would recommend to pull a multitrack sound board feed (and any associate cables needed).

I currently use a Zoom H4N to pull a general sound board mix and a vocal only feed at the same time to fill in some missing dynamics from the CA14 (to enhance some clarity). However, I've been thinking I might spend some time to invest in a multitrack recorder, and was hoping someone had some input.

I've been looking at some TASCAM's, but without any experience pulling multitracks, I honestly have no idea what's the most solid, yet affordable, one. This would be used primarily when we are sanctioned by the band to be there, so we wouldn't need to stealth it.

[Walstib62]

A lot of questions:
How portable does it need to be?
Will you be using it mostly in 1 venue?
Mic placement options?
computer interface or true multitrack recorder unit?

[RoganSarine]

A lot of questions:
How portable does it need to be?
Will you be using it mostly in 1 venue?
Mic placement options?
computer interface or true multitrack recorder unit?

Ha ha, you're totally right. I should have clarified portability.

How portable does it need to be?
The more portable, the better. I would be carrying it from the car to the venue. The venues will change, so our gear won't be left in a single place. I currently use a huge duffel gym bag to carry all our gear, mic stands, etc. Something that's about the size of a 13"-15" laptop would be the ideal maximum size.

Mic placement options?
In terms of? I'd be running omnis and cards into our Sony PCM-10's. The multitrack recorders main purpose is to pull each instrument separately directly from the soundboard. The sound technicians in our city are kinda shit (literally, they have no sound qualifications - they're just the guy who doesn't want bar duty), so sometimes I need a way to boost a certain instrument (usually vocals) to make it more clear - this is how I want to use the multitrack.

computer interface or true multitrack recorder unit?
True multitrack in all likely hood, but if it's cheaper for a computer interface, I could always use my laptop with ease.

I'll sacrifice price to size in many regards, and I prefer tactile response over digital. However, my laptop is a tablet PC, so it's fairly tactile anyway.

I'm trying to gauge how financially feasible this would be.

[ScoobieKW]

How many tracks?

Premixed L/R = 2
Vocals = 3 or 4

Will you feel  limited by an 8 track?

[RoganSarine]

How many tracks?

Premixed L/R = 2
Vocals = 3 or 4

Will you feel  limited by an 8 track?

I don't think I'd feel limited by an 8 track a lot of the instruments will be individually balanced already on the main board (I'm looking at you drums), and I definitely wouldn't ever need them.

I'd be looking at as you said, probably 3 vocal tracks (1 main, 2 backups) and 2-3 instrumental tracks (which is usually just a L/R general instrumental mix because, well, the room mics are generally sweet for picking these up).

[TNJazz]

Tascam HS-P82

[yousef]

If I could piggyback onto this discussion - can I ask what sort of spec of laptop would one want to be recording up to 16 tracks of 48kHz/24bit? (Probably via Presonus firewire interfaces.)

I ask because I quite fancy picking up second hand Panasonic Toughbook for recording duties but I'm not sure if they're up to the task. Mixing/processing would be done elsewhere - this would just be a matter of getting the data safely onto disc.

Sorry for possible threadjack - hopefully it's relevant to the OP's questions.

[kcmule]

Alesis HD24

[mepaca]

Agreed. The hd24 or upgraded hd24xr is bullet proof and sounds great. It is the backup for all my multitrack recordings and has saved my ass more
than once. To go through all the effort to make a multitrack live recording and then not get paid because of a computer glitch is unthinkable.

[John Willett]

This doesn't really seem to fit in "Recording Gear" since it's not reference to "Portable (in the usual battery sense)" or a "Studio" recorder...

But, as most people here recommend the Sony M10 for microphone inputs, I was wondering what they would recommend to pull a multitrack sound board feed (and any associate cables needed).

There is only one choice for this - the JoeCo Black Box Recorder.

It's designed to do exactly what you described and is an excellent machine.

Sound On Sound review is HERE.

[kcmule]

^^ I'd love to have one of those but they cost a small fortune.

[Patrick]

...and with the Joe Co boxes, you'll need to spend a significant amount of money on multipin breakout cables for all of your I/O.  For quick, easy, and affordable multitracking I would look at something else.  Joe Co Boxes are great though if you can afford it.   

[SmokinJoe]

I think it helps to understand your objective.  In my mind if you are capturing what the sound guy puts out, that's "taping."  If you are recording all the raw feeds and remixing them that's "multitracking".  The significant difference isn't just in the recorder, it's what you do with it in post.  If you are friends with a band with 2 guys with acoustic guitars, then 2 vocal mics + 2 guitars + 2 room mics really is a complete multitrack in 6 channels.  If you grab all the individual feeds for a full rock band you are talking 16-24 tracks.

I run 4 channels (2 SBD + 2 AUD) 80% of the time, and R4/R44, etc is perfect for that.  I have an HD24 setup which I use 10% of the time, and probably the other 10% is just 2 track AUD.

To me, 2 SBD + 2 AUD makes a lot of sense.  If I'm getting a mono SBD feed, sometimes I take the spare channel and grab the bass guitar DI.  I have friends with 680's who will run 2 AUD + 2 SBD, and then grab a couple of individual channels (like lead singer's vocal and kick) to fill in the weak channels.  If this kind of thing "a couple of extra channels" appeals to you, then something like a 680 is great.  Speaking only for myself... I'm happy with 4 track, or I want all the stage mics + AUD, which is where I use the HD24.

Does that make sense?

[John Willett]

For a multi-track recorder that can record direct from the send and returns of a mixing console onto a hard drive that can then be plugged directly into your DAW, the JoeCo Black Box is actually pretty inexpensive.

I know several amateur recordists that have this as it's high quality and affordable.

It's what I would use in the same circumstances.

[RoganSarine]

For a multi-track recorder that can record direct from the send and returns of a mixing console onto a hard drive that can then be plugged directly into your DAW, the JoeCo Black Box is actually pretty inexpensive.

I know several amateur recordists that have this as it's high quality and affordable.

It's what I would use in the same circumstances.

Hey John,

Sorry for the 3 month delay in thank you for the recommendation.  I've had a very stressful and emotional life these last couple months. Shortly after posting that message I was let go from my job, so I was kind of out of it for awhile. Anyway, with things finally starting to look up I'm back in the market for a multitrack recorder.

Looking at the JoeCo recorder, the only thing that leaves me a little apprehensive is since it's a rack unit, i'd primarily be carrying the thing between venues. I don't know how feasible or practical this would be (I'm not an expert in portable rack rigs), so I'm gonna go see if I can find a physical unit to look at. It's a little weird to try and go to a venue to try and get the sound tech's permission to plug in a unit inbetween the board and the instruments, but it's something I'd like to try - it's a fun little hobby.