Taping From The Lawn - Possible To Achieve Good Results?

[SMBTapes]

I searched throughout the boards, and while some members mentioned taping from the lawn, I couldn't find any comments on whether or not it was a good idea, or any reviews on how their recordings came out.

So, is it possible to achieve good results when taping from the lawn? I'm thinking about hitting up 106.5 The End's Weenie Roast 2012, and capturing Garbage and Coheed, if not the others as well. Also thinking about capturing Aerosmith's tour with Cheap Trick, both shows of which I would only be able to afford the lawn. I will be using a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 to capture video in 1080/60 progressive, and either using an external mic plugged into the camera or an audio rig to capture the audio.

Now, let me explain my reasoning for recording from the lawn. For one, it's a hell of a lot cheaper. The camera I will be using was $450, so yea, I'm tapped for awhile. The camera has 24x optical zoom, so getting close to the action video wise will not be a problem at all. It's the audio I'm worried about. Even if I was "front row" on the lawn, would I be able to get a decent audio capture, or will I be positioned too far away? The other plus to my set up is that the camera is just that, a camera. Not a camcorder. And since it doesn't have a detachable lens, it's not considered professional by most venues, so they allow it. No one ever said super zooms were not allowed. 

But yes, any opinion and suggestions in regards to getting the best audio I can from the lawn would be greatly appreciated!

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 1080/60 Progressive Test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXHgqzw9XOY
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 Zoom Test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1S0zinJ9_w
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 Moon Zoom Test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMtlm7-_sU4

[SmokinJoe]

Yes, you can get decent results from the lawn.  If the venue is a big shed, frequently they will have "repeater stacks", another set of speakers for the people outside the shed.  Sometimes that actually sounds better than inside because there is less echo/reflections.

The key to success in any case is what I'll loosely call "signal to noise ratio", not in the electronic sense, but in the positional sense.  The signal is the sound coming out of those stacks, and you want that.  The noise is the drunk guys hootin' and hollarin' around you, and you don't want that.  If you can position yourself closer to the stacks the signal improves, and if you can move away from the mass of drunken wookies the noise becomes less.  Take that for what it's worth.  If you can use directional mics pointed towards the stacks, frequently that will capture less wookie noise than omni directional mics.  Before someone jumps on me about "I love omnis outdoors", I agree but I thinking getting them up in the air is important... this guy is running undercover, which means head-high.

[runonce]

Yes, you can get decent results from the lawn.  If the venue is a big shed, frequently they will have "repeater stacks", another set of speakers for the people outside the shed.  Sometimes that actually sounds better than inside because there is less echo/reflections.

Agree - for reasons Joe says...

I used to prefer taping from the lawn at the Mann...

And Deer Creek (at least in the 90s) - had superb sound on the lawn...also like preferred the lawn there also...

[DigiGal]

Yes, you can get decent results from the lawn.  If the venue is a big shed, frequently they will have "repeater stacks", another set of speakers for the people outside the shed.  Sometimes that actually sounds better than inside because there is less echo/reflections.

I used to prefer taping from the lawn at the Mann...

Agreed good recordings can be made from lawn sections but quality varies from venue to venue. 

I personally found the lawn at the Mann Center lawn to be horrible so I haven't gone back but I have heard from others that it has improved.  The year I was there one of the house delay speakers was blown emitting distorted crackling sound and the particular show I was there for started late due to a equipment truck problem thus the lawn wasn't dialed in at all during their late soundcheck.  That Mann Center recording was completely unusable, never even bothered to track it out.

[SMBTapes]

Thanks for the input so far.

Here's a video I recorded on a 2007 digital camera. The venue is practically identical to the one I'll be seeing the festival at (the one in the video is in Raleigh, NC, with the festival venue being in Charlotte, NC). This was shot from the very back of the lawn, right before the descending stairs down. Considering the camera, distance from the stage, and being outdoors, I'd say it was pretty decent. I've had MD recordings sound worse. Definitely room for improvement , but not distorted or anything like that. Of course, there's the chatters present in the video. I've never chosen a seat on the lawn based on noise reduction or the lowest noise level areas, so I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the stacks, as well as drunk, aggressive crowd members. Every show I've seen from the lawn at either venue had very clear sound with nice separation. So if all goes well, I should get a nice pull, if I can stay away from the drunks...

And yes, I apologize for the larger lady standing in front of the camera the entire time. I was working for The Sounds at this show, so I just grabbed a quick clip while I could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nmLr7Ve73g

[DigiGal]

Recommend the use of external mics above the crowd and don't use any AGC, set your levels manually.

[SMBTapes]

Recommend the use of external mics above the crowd and don't use any AGC, set your levels manually.

Yea, while the Panasonic I'll be using has great video, it lacks much in the audio department, with almost no bass. I will either use externals or a Mic > Sony PCM-M10 rig.

[bryonsos]

Recommend the use of external mics above the crowd and don't use any AGC, set your levels manually.

Yea, while the Panasonic I'll be using has great video, it lacks much in the audio department, with almost no bass. I will either use externals or a Mic > Sony PCM-M10 rig.

Before anybody starts chirping about plugging mics directly into the M10, I agreed to loan SMBtapes a set of B3s and a CA-Ugly.

[SMBTapes]

Recommend the use of external mics above the crowd and don't use any AGC, set your levels manually.

Yea, while the Panasonic I'll be using has great video, it lacks much in the audio department, with almost no bass. I will either use externals or a Mic > Sony PCM-M10 rig.

Before anybody starts chirping about plugging mics directly into the M10, I agreed to loan SMBtapes a set of B3s and a CA-Ugly.

Yes, should have mentioned that! Also, check your PM.

[runonce]

Yes, you can get decent results from the lawn.  If the venue is a big shed, frequently they will have "repeater stacks", another set of speakers for the people outside the shed.  Sometimes that actually sounds better than inside because there is less echo/reflections.

I used to prefer taping from the lawn at the Mann...

Agreed good recordings can be made from lawn sections but quality varies from venue to venue. 

I personally found the lawn at the Mann Center lawn to be horrible so I haven't gone back but I have heard from others that it has improved.  The year I was there one of the house delay speakers was blown emitting distorted crackling sound and the particular show I was there for started late due to a equipment truck problem thus the lawn wasn't dialed in at all during their late soundcheck.  That Mann Center recording was completely unusable, never even bothered to track it out.

Well - admittedly - I haven't been to the Mann since 1994...

[SMBTapes]

Just thought of something else...

The left and right internal mics are positioned on top of the pop up flash. Since I won't be needing the flash to video record, and should I HAVE to use the internal mics, would it be possible (and by possible, I mean successful ) to pop up the flash, and pull a windscreen down over it, since that is where the mics are located?

[Gutbucket]

If wind noise is a concern, you can stick a small chunk of windscreen foam or fur over the mic port on the camera with a donut shaped piece of double sided adhesive tape.  Do it yourself or buy one ready to go- http://www.rycote.com/products/micro_windjammers/

[SMBTapes]

If wind noise is a concern, you can stick a small chunk of windscreen foam or fur over the mic port on the camera with a donut shaped piece of double sided adhesive tape.  Do it yourself or buy one ready to go- http://www.rycote.com/products/micro_windjammers/

That's awesome! You can buy anything these days. I've seen the big ones for audio recorders mainly, but have never seen these. Thanks!

[raymonda]

Thanks for the input so far.

Here's a video I recorded on a 2007 digital camera. The venue is practically identical to the one I'll be seeing the festival at (the one in the video is in Raleigh, NC, with the festival venue being in Charlotte, NC). This was shot from the very back of the lawn, right before the descending stairs down. Considering the camera, distance from the stage, and being outdoors, I'd say it was pretty decent. I've had MD recordings sound worse. Definitely room for improvement , but not distorted or anything like that. Of course, there's the chatters present in the video. I've never chosen a seat on the lawn based on noise reduction or the lowest noise level areas, so I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the stacks, as well as drunk, aggressive crowd members. Every show I've seen from the lawn at either venue had very clear sound with nice separation. So if all goes well, I should get a nice pull, if I can stay away from the drunks...

And yes, I apologize for the larger lady standing in front of the camera the entire time. I was working for The Sounds at this show, so I just grabbed a quick clip while I could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nmLr7Ve73g

The only thing that the video clip tells me is that your camera works, which as most video camera's do today.

As far as where you will get the best sound, IMO, the best seat in the house will always sound better than the best sound on the lawn. The worst seat on the lawn will always sound worse than a good seat in the house. The worse seat in the house will sound better than the worse seat on the lawn. The worse seat in the house will not sound better than the best seat on the lawn, if the sound crew makes sure the lawn system is operating correctly. However, many times the sound crew does not do their job correctly and the repeaters are not mixed well, up in volume or working properly.

So, in general, it depends on where you are sitting in either place. That being said, I will not record nor will I even go to a show where I'm forced to record on the lawn. I've had too many experiences in the past where I tried, and had the best seat on the lawn, only to get poor results.

Also, for video, just because you have a 28 zoom does not mean you will get great or usable video from the lawn. Exposure time, apature settings, and video movement are all related. The closer you are to the source the better the clarity and stability of the video. Micro movements up close may not be a problem but back on the lawn become major movements which look like a wild boat ride on a rough lake.

If you are using one camera make sure you have it clamped to a stand and do not touch it for the entire set. Nothing but bad things will come from trying to zoom or pan during the shooting. Just get a nice tight crop of the band and leave it alone. That one static frame will serve you better than one which jitters, unevenly pans or at worst takes everyone on a roller coaster ride.

[NSL]

Verizon is usually pretty strict about what you can bring in but i'm sure you know that already.  I would probably never tape from the lawn there, especially with the crowds in Charlotte.  Last time I was in the lawn there (for Avenged Sevenfold and Disturbed in 2010 I think), the repeater stacks sounded AWFUL