Topic: Using Sony PCM D50 with outboard mics

[gr8fulpete]

These are definite newbie questions, so I apologize in advance.  I have been using a Sony PCM D50 for live concert recording, and am generally satisfied with the results but am considering an upgrade.  In a perfect world, I'd like to continue using the PCM, because I know the device, and it's pretty user friendly.  My questions are as follows:  If I want to use outboard mics with the PCM, I can buy the add-on interface called the XLR1, which will enable me to run XLR inputs into the PCM.  If I do this, do I need a pre-amp, or can I just run mics directly into the XLR1 and call it a day?  The next question is, what mics should I consider using?  I generally record rock music, but also some quieter music as well (folk/blues type of sounds).  I'm not terribly concerned about cost -- just what will deliver the best quality.  And now for the last question:  If the PCM is not enough recorder for my needs, what should I be considering moving into?  Size is an issue (I'd like to stay as portable as possible), but any suggestions for a good rig would be appreciated (with the understanding that I'd prefer to stay with the PCM if possible).

Thanks very much for any guidance anybody is able to provide. 

[ilduclo]

I have 2 dpa mics terminated into 1 1/8" connector, I run into a battery box, then run that into the d50 mic in. Works in all cases, from loudest to quietest shows.

If you want or need to do a xlr connections or 1/4", or double connections of any kind, there are many ways to do that into the mic in port for the d50, no real need to buy the sony xlr unit, but that would also work OK

[aaronji]

I have 2 dpa mics terminated into 1 1/8" connector, I run into a battery box, then run that into the d50 mic in. Works in all cases, from loudest to quietest shows.

If you want or need to do a xlr connections or 1/4", or double connections of any kind, there are many ways to do that into the mic in port for the d50, no real need to buy the sony xlr unit, but that would also work OK

That thing is pricey too (about $450).  Maybe consider a tinybox?  That would give you P48 in a compact package at half the price...Nice pre too, by all accounts.

[acidjack]

I am not familiar with that D50 add-on, but unless that provides phantom power, that is not something you want.

Do you record openly, or stealth?  Or some of both?  That will affect what outboard mics to add. 

Assuming you want to run openly only, you have two basic options:

1. Keep D50, run mics>preamp>D50.  Naiant (www.naiant.com and a member of this board) sells a small box that provides 48V phantom power that runs about $300 depending on options.
2. Get a recorder that provides phantom power.  There are now several decent options.  The Marantz PMD661 is a bit more expensive but is high quality.  Tascam also makes the DR-40 and DR-100mkII, both of which can do this as well. 

Neither option is 'bad'.  The D50 is a nice unit, probably higher quality than the Tascam offerings, more in line with the quality of the Marantz.  You could unload it for about $400 and move straight to the Tascams without spending more, or spend another $250 to move to the Marantz.  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=594741&Q=&is=REG&A=details   My inclination would be to just add a preamp.  The D50 is a high quality unit and you already know how to use it.  The preamp is easy to get to know - there's not much to the tinybox other than an "on" switch and gain settings.  If you get more into recording openly, you can always upgrade to a different preamp down the road, without ever getting rid of the D50.  And the tinybox is, well, tiny - smaller than a pack of cigarettes.  Carrying that plus the D50 isn't going to weight down your bag at all.

On mics, you really need to set a budget and be specific about whether you need to run openly or stealth, as you can get a fairly-good pair of mics for as little as $200 or so to an absolutely stellar pair of mics for $3500.

The D50's internals are, for all I've heard, among the best internals, especially if placed and used properly.  I know at least one professional who has used one for "found sounds" and other one-off type recordings that he has actually incorporated into professional productions.  But, you will see a large jump in quality if you acquire a decent set of outboard mics - especially since you won't just be stuck with the fixed X-Y or "wide stereo" patterns of the D50.

[kleiner Rainer]

When I was in the same situation (xlr plus phantom power for my D50), I bit the bullet and bought a MixPre D. Sounds like overkill, but it was money well spent. Apart from XLR inputs and phantom power, I got an excellent preamp and a superb USB sound interface, too. Not to mention that monster VU meter...

Greetings,

Rainer

[hi and lo]

When I was in the same situation (xlr plus phantom power for my D50), I bit the bullet and bought a MixPre D. Sounds like overkill, but it was money well spent. Apart from XLR inputs and phantom power, I got an excellent preamp and a superb USB sound interface, too. Not to mention that monster VU meter...

Greetings,

Rainer

Is the MixPre D compatible with the D50s digital input? It can only send an AES signal and I wouldn't be surprised if the D50 only accepts an SPDIF formatted signal.

That detail aside, buying a unit like the MixPre D is absolutely the way to go and I can't recommend the XLR1 for a number of reasons.

edit: Sony did an absolutely shit job on writing the manual for the D50. Unless I'm blind, no where does it specify the formats it will accept on the digital input. Just... completely... absent.

[ScoobieKW]

When I was in the same situation (xlr plus phantom power for my D50), I bit the bullet and bought a MixPre D. Sounds like overkill, but it was money well spent. Apart from XLR inputs and phantom power, I got an excellent preamp and a superb USB sound interface, too. Not to mention that monster VU meter...

Greetings,

Rainer

Is the MixPre D compatible with the D50s digital input? It can only send an AES signal and I wouldn't be surprised if the D50 only accepts an SPDIF formatted signal.

That detail aside, buying a unit like the MixPre D is absolutely the way to go and I can't recommend the XLR1 for a number of reasons.

edit: Sony did an absolutely shit job on writing the manual for the D50. Unless I'm blind, no where does it specify the formats it will accept on the digital input. Just... completely... absent.

IIRC, Sound Devices did a firmware update to handle the D50's optical in.

[acidjack]

^^ if that is true, then I would second the MixPre-D as a great option, albeit, at a significant price jump over the TB.

[hi and lo]

It wouldn't surprise me because Sound Devices is an awesome company. 

[gr8fulpete]

OK, great responses.  Thanks to all.  If I were to go with the Mix Pre D, how, exactly, do I set it up?  I have the two mics direct into the XLR inputs of the Mix Pre D, then what?  Is that "tape out" jack a mini output that I would plug directly into the line in on the PCM D50? 

[acidjack]

Yes, it'd be:

Mics>XLR cables>XLR inputs of MixPre-D>digital out of MixPre-D>Digital in of D50

Again, I'd confirm that there is an appropriate firmware update that lets the MixPre-D run into the optical digital input on your D50, but that should be easy for Sound Devices to confirm.

[fmaderjr]

I can buy the add-on interface called the XLR1, which will enable me to run XLR inputs into the PCM.

As others have suggested, spend less and get a tiny box or spend more and get a MixPre-D. Both include preamps, which the XLR1 does not.

IMO the XLR1 is one of the biggest rip offs in audio since it costs $450 and all it does is provide phantom power.

[kleiner Rainer]

I should note that I use tape out -> Line in, since the MixPre D has an AES digital out and the D50 expects an optical SPDIF signal. The test tone is used to set the recording level on the D50 to 20dB below FS, the limiter on the MixPre D is set to +18dB or so, so that it is nearly impossible to overdrive the D50.

Hope that helps.

Greetings,

Rainer

[gr8fulpete]

Thanks, Rainer.  Are you saying that I can run direct from the tape out of the Mix Pre D into my D50's optical input?

I should note that I use tape out -> Line in, since the MixPre D has an AES digital out and the D50 expects an optical SPDIF signal. The test tone is used to set the recording level on the D50 to 20dB below FS, the limiter on the MixPre D is set to +18dB or so, so that it is nearly impossible to overdrive the D50.

Hope that helps.

Greetings,

Rainer

[eman]

If you have an optical input, look in to the Edirol UA-5. This must be modified to pass the signal through from the input to the output- the factory stock goes input to USB, USB to output. Somebody figured out you can jumper the wires right before the USB circuit. There are also some other mods (warm, transparent) that make it sound better (replacing capacitors and such) but the d-mod as it is called (jumper only) sounds pretty good.