Topic: Upgrade - next step?

[colinw]

Hi everyone, I am currently thinking about upgrading my open taping rig. I have CA14 omnis and cards that I use for both stealth and open taping situations.

I have recorded a bunch of shows and the set up I use is as follows:
CA14 (o/c) > CA Ugly BB > TASCAM DR mkII recorder

I started pen taping this summer, and have a 10 foot stand, an adaptor and a t-bar that I use to clip the CA mics to. I have been really pleased with the quality of the recordings so far, but I feel that I am missing something that a better quality set of Open mics could deliver.

What is you opinion on the next step for open taping rig? I am thinking about a budget of $500-600 dollars for mics, and then whatever I would need for a preamp and cables.
I tape club and festival shows for the most part, and as mentioned I will stealth when required. For open taping, I am looking to find a pair of mics that are to open taping what the CAs are to stealthing. Make sense? When I bought the CAs there seemed to be a pretty solid concensus that the CA rig was a great rig to stealth with. What would that concensus be for a similar beginner open taping rig? What would give me the most bang for my bucks in the $5-600 range? Is that enough of a budget to see a difference from open taping with the CA14s?

Some questions
1) do I need a different recorder with XLR ins? I assume I can run XLR cables from open taping mics to the miniplug in on my recorder if I buy a dual XLR/miniplug cable? Is there a reason not to do this? The TASCAM I have only accepts a miniplug in.
2) How are the larger mics powered - do they have their own batteries? Will the 9 V battery box I have power them?
3) what kind of t-bar and shock mounts would I need?


Thanks for any and all information. I know opinions are varied, and I have done a lot of research by listening to different setups on the LMA. The issue I have is that the mics I love the sound of are always way out of my price range. I am looking here for a holy grail of mics - the ones which are reasonably cheap but produce  better than expected results, kind of like the CAs do for stealth.

thanks for your time everyone!

[rodeen]

The world is your oyster!  You have many options available.

You could get a new recorder with XLR inputs or get an external preamp with XLR inputs and feed your current recorder with a 3.5mm connector.  The Naiant Tinybox could be the clear thing for you.  It can be configured to provide P48 phantom power to power your mics, act as a preamp and feed your existing recorder.

Plenty of mic options too in that price range.  Without turning this into too much of a shameless plug, something like the Busman BSC1 stereo mic kit would serve you well.  I just happen to have a set for sale in the Yard Sale (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157709.msg1988694#msg1988694).

The BSC1's come with a set of cards, omnis, hypercards and subcards that give you enough flexibility for nearly any recording situation.  The kit also comes with a t-bar and shock mounts.  Something like the BSC1's and a Tinybox is close to your budget and you can continue to use your current recorder, stand etc.

Good luck, have fun with your upgrade!

[ScoobieKW]

The world is your oyster!  You have many options available.

You could get a new recorder with XLR inputs or get an external preamp with XLR inputs and feed your current recorder with a 3.5mm connector.  The Naiant Tinybox could be the clear thing for you.  It can be configured to provide P48 phantom power to power your mics, act as a preamp and feed your existing recorder.

Plenty of mic options too in that price range.  Without turning this into too much of a shameless plug, something like the Busman BSC1 stereo mic kit would serve you well.  I just happen to have a set for sale in the Yard Sale (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157709.msg1988694#msg1988694).

The BSC1's come with a set of cards, omnis, hypercards and subcards that give you enough flexibility for nearly any recording situation.  The kit also comes with a t-bar and shock mounts.  Something like the BSC1's and a Tinybox is close to your budget and you can continue to use your current recorder, stand etc.

Good luck, have fun with your upgrade!

+1 for Busman BSC1s and Tinybox. Great advice.

[achalsey]

Plenty of shows to check out with a similar set up.  They're with a littlebox but they should sound pretty similar.  I think I've read some say the tinybox might actually sound a bit better...

http://archive.org/search.php?query=Busman%20BSC%201%20AND%20Naiant%20AND%20collection%3Aetree%20AND%20collection%3Aetree

[adrianf74]

At $5-600, you're kinda limited in your choices; when you step up to $1k-$1200, you've got some more choices.   At the $5-600 mark, I'd definitely look at the BSC-1's as already mentioned.   They're great mics for the money.   Many samples up on LMA.

[Marshall7]

Colin - check your e-mail

[F.O.Bean]

I agree the Busman BSC1s and a littlebox/tinybox is your best option at that price point!

[acidjack]

I'd give a listen to the Berliner CM-33s. Lots of good recent pulls on here by members and there are sets going for $400 on eBay.  They're "Neumann Knockoffs" if you will. 

You'll get a lot of votes for the Busman setup based on the fact that you get lots of capsules at an "all in one" price.  That may or may not make that the most compelling option for you.  But I would really, really recommend listening to recordings on the LMA first, including recordings of bands that you listen to, recorded in the situations you actually record in.  For example, the fact that a mic is awesome for onstage jazz may not tell you much about how it sounds in a Phish/whoever taper section.

[SmokinJoe]

Another choice to think about in that 500-600 range is a pair of Peluso CEMC6.  The subcard cap especially is really really sweet.  There was a set in the yard sale recently, probably still there, with subcard, card, and hypers.  But don't just take my word for it, go onto the archive and listen for yourself.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=158225.0
The ACM PMD660 is a great recorder by the way.  The preamps are first rate.  People might think 16bit is a joke, but it's not.  It's like having a Zeiss camera lens on a 2 mega pixel camera will look better than a cheap plastic lens on a 20megapixel camera.  Resolution isn't nearly as important as getting a good analog signal to the A/D converter, and that's where the 660 excels.

Also consider AKG 391's (AKG390 bodies with CK91 caps) which are readily available for maybe a little less than that, and AKG461's (AKG460 bodies with CK61 caps) are which are frequently in that range as well.

[colinw]

Hi everyone - thanks for the great feedback. I am liking the sound of the Tinybox and the Busman BSC1 setup. I am a little confused by the cable configuration however. I am thinking that the cable would be a dual XLR > single mini XLR that plugs into the tinybox, and then a 3.5mm miniplug from the tonybox > my tascam recorder? Is that correct? I am also a little confused on exactly what the tinybox is going to do for me? I understand it will power the mics, and will also provide adjustable gain? Are there alternatives that do the same thing as the Tinybox - what about the Church preamps?

Finally, any other recommendations on mics in the $5-600 range? I know the budget limits what I am looking for, so are Busmans the clear standout or are there other options I missed? Has anyone heard of or used "Advanced Audio" mics of any type http://www.aamicrophones.com/fet_mics/cm_47.htm

Thanks as always for the great recommendations. I want to get this decision right as it will be my open taping rig for a number of years.

[aaronji]

I am a little confused by the cable configuration however. I am thinking that the cable would be a dual XLR > single mini XLR that plugs into the tinybox, and then a 3.5mm miniplug from the tonybox > my tascam recorder?

You need to order a special cable with the tinybox for P48 mics (I believe it is dual XLR to single mini-XLR).  There are a bunch of output options...

I am also a little confused on exactly what the tinybox is going to do for me? I understand it will power the mics, and will also provide adjustable gain? Are there alternatives that do the same thing as the Tinybox - what about the Church preamps?

Yes; power and gain.  The Church pres won't work with P48 mics, like the Busmans...

[stevetoney]

You asked for other mic options...give NAK300 and/or TEAC ME-80 (clones of the NAKs) a listen.  There are several pairs for sale presently in the yard sale in the 200 - 250 range.  Great bang for buck.

[fmaderjr]

You asked for other mic options...give NAK300 and/or TEAC ME-80 (clones of the NAKs) a listen.  There are several pairs for sale presently in the yard sale in the 200 - 250 range.  Great bang for buck.

The chopped TEACs are a steal:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0
Much smaller that the stock TEAKS or Naks, don't need to worry about batteries, and some say they sound even better that the stock mics. They only come with cardioid caps, but I have Franken Naks and have never used the omnis.

This deal is also a steal:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=158225.0
If you only want the mics, resell the other stuff.

[Scooter123]

A change in mikes will give you more bang for the buck.  But, that will usually entail a new preamp, and that puts you way over budget. 

[ero3030]

my advice.  quit while your ahead and enjoy the tapes u r making, or............................u can go this route   http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157545.0
with a shit load gear available in between.  ed