Topic: M-S stealthing in classical music concert halls

[gorlando]

I understand "stealthing" is an art each of the TS members keeps confidential....
I will expose my question here, then if anybody wants to help, he can send me a PM.

After many years of "easy" stealthing with my DPA 4060's (very easy, they are so small...) I am now setting up a Schoeps "directional" rig to try and get better recordings from a distance from the orchestra.
I had the opportunity to buy an MK8 cap, so M-S will be my first setup. I have a KCY cable, a Tinybox is under its way (I hope to receive it soon), now I need the "M" and then I should be ready. I am looking for an MK4, I understand it is the most appropriate for this setup, soon or later some will be at reach, Ebay or else.

I am wondering how to best stealth with this new rig. My typical venue is a concert hall of 1000 - 2000 people (in Europe, I guess in the US a similar venue could be the Carnegie Hall or the like), all seated in numbered places. I cannot wear a hat.

First, how to put together the M-S rig? MK4 on top of the MK8? Or the opposite? I cannot use one of the nice supports I've seen here for open taping, so I am thinking to fix the capsules (connected to the KCY cable) one to the other in some way (with O-rings, gaffer tape or the like, any idea?) and then need to put them on me so they stay in the right direction and are not too visible.

Any help from the other tapers would be appreciated 

[johnw]

As far as holding them together, maybe look into the MS Lyre thing from Rycote

http://www.rycote.com//images/uploads/products/main/010904_STEREO_SUSPENSION_2_MOD_BLACK_LYRES_WITH_SCHOEPSCMC.png

[Gutbucket]

Wear a nice, well wraped turban (formal black of course, consider grill-cloth).
Consider a MK41 for the mid.
Get closer.
Mums the word.

[Colin Liston]

Wear a nice, well wraped turban (formal black of course, consider grill-cloth).
Consider a MK41 for the mid.
Get closer.
Mums the word.

Just don't wear the turban in the US.  You will get searched.  Turban and wires are a bad combination....

[Gutbucket]

He's in Europe, it's cool.  Big turban, no wires down.

[Colin Liston]

He's in Europe, it's cool.  Big turban, no wires down.

There's a song in there somewhere...

[DSatz]

I'm a professional musician and am opposed to "stealth" recording in most situations, so I will not give positive advice here, but would just like to mention one fact of acoustical physics. While omnidirectional microphones respond to sound pressure at a single point, and can function properly (although differently) when that sound inlet is the only part exposed to the sound field, the principles that govern the operation of directional microphones are different: They require free, unobstructed pathways for sound coming from all directions in the surrounding space. They don't deliver anything like their specified directional or frequency response if the arrival of sounds from various angles is blocked.

This effect can be exploited sometimes, as with directional boundary layer microphones, but that requires a large surface with a regular shape and a low degree of absorption.

As a friend of the Schoeps company I'm pleased that you think highly of their microphones, but what may work the best in a "stealth" situation may well be a matter of pure trial and error, with the emphasis on error, because you are using the microphones in a way that is so very different from the basic arrangement that classic microphones "expect" (and are designed) to be used in.

[gorlando]

Thank you for your advice DSatz. You are right, in the open it would be another matter. if I could be on the stage I would be very happy, but I can't.
After a few years with omni (and I like my DPA 4060's for this use), I am very happy of some results, less of others (mostly depending on the distance from the stage), I have decided (better, the bug decided....) to try and improve. Going "directional seemed to me the best way (since I tape from a distance) and I decided to try M-S since it should be the most "stealthable" technique using directional mirophones, I'm starting with an MK4G for the Mid capsule and will try to understand how to make the M-S work at best.

What I would need most now is some advice for stealthing optimization. You are not into it, I hope others on TS will give me some clues (via PM, of course) so I can get the best possible results. Then I will see if the results are ok or not, and decide what to do.

[acidjack]

Has stealth M/S ever successfully been done?

I'm kind of curious how you got this idea.  It kind of screams "bad idea" to me, but I guess that's mostly because I've never heard of it being done.  And it seems much more difficult to mount.

[bryonsos]

Has stealth M/S ever successfully been done?

I'm kind of curious how you got this idea.  It kind of screams "bad idea" to me, but I guess that's mostly because I've never personally heard of it being done.  And it seems much more difficult to mount.

I've been wondering this myself. Top hat or beehive hairdo?

[JasonR]

I've been wondering this myself. Top hat or beehive hairdo?

I was thinking more of a prosthetic nose and a ball gag.

[F.O.Bean]

Has stealth M/S ever successfully been done?

I'm kind of curious how you got this idea.  It kind of screams "bad idea" to me, but I guess that's mostly because I've never personally heard of it being done.  And it seems much more difficult to mount.

I've been wondering this myself. Top hat or beehive hairdo?

Same here! I would think stealhting MS would be VERY difficult! Using a schoeps/nolabars would seem much easier, but then again, I don't stealth!

[bryonsos]

I've been wondering this myself. Top hat or beehive hairdo?

I was thinking more of a prosthetic nose and a ball gag.

  I always forget to use common household items.

[ebenj]

It seems as though you will mount the Mk8 and Mk4 together, with the bodies of the microphones pointing forwards.  I'm always tempted to think about mounting the microphones on the user's head, but that really doesn't seem very stealthy.  Given that both microphones have a null facing backwards, it seems as though you might get away with having the microphones mounted in such a way as to point directly forward from your chest.  It's still not very stealthy!  If the microphones were from the Schoeps CCM series then things start to get a bit better.  The CCM8 is 58 mm according to the data sheet.

A number of years ago I did some recordings with a combination of a Knowles NR3158 Fig8 capsule and a Knowles FG omni capsule.  These are hearing aid capsules and the two of them together measured about 6.5 mm ( 0.3"), which is to say about the same size as a DPA 4060 or a Countryman B3.  The trouble with that setup was that I had to use about 40 dB of LF EQ to get reasonable bass response out of the NR3158, and that compromised the noise performance. 

But it does give rise to some thinking about constructing a stealth M-S rig that is stealthy simply because it's not recognized as a microphone by observers.