Topic: Newbie question: Camcorder + CA14 = No result, do i need pre-amp?

[KoenG]

Hi there tapers,

I've been lurching these forums for some while now and i learned quite a bit about stuff i didn't know nothing about. To be honest it's a world i didn't know existed. As i still find it hard to get my head around some of this technical stuff (never been good at that) i thought you might want to help me out a bit.

But first let me tell you a bit a bout myself and where  i'm coming from:
I've been visiting concerts and shows for about 20 years now and have a very broad taste; Indie, Dance, Harcore/punk, Americana, Metal (doom/stoner/black), HipHop and what not. Often it gets loud though.
The last couple of year i've been bringing a camcorder to almost all gigs i attend and i tend to film one or two songs of every act i see. I've been putting these up on youtube as a running log of shows i've seen. To help me remember when i'm old as i always say. ;-)
Started off with some simple flip-camera but upgraded over time and now use a Panasonic HDC SD90 camcorder. A camera which suits my needs quite well. I don't want to bring to much gear, i want to stay nimble and be to be able to start filming without to much hassle from whichever corner of the venue i'm at.
Recording is definitely not the main reason to visit a show and i always want to make sure i'm not bothering anyone. I never want to be that guy blocking the view for others.

That being said, it is nice to have a reasonable recording. I think the Panasonic has been doing quite well. Here's a recent clip of Neurosis' Scott Kelly i shot: http://youtu.be/bq-IsCpXggM

Now some of the local promotors have been very appreciative of my videos and have been inviting me to shoot some clips at their shows/festivals. To show my appreciation for those invitations i have been looking into upgrading the audio quality for those recordings.
So last year i've bought some Church Audio omnis and a battery box and plugged those in to the camcorder. The results have been a bit disappointing so i reckon i'm doing something wrong.

The input levels seem to be way to high for the camcorder and the sound comes out all distorted. There's a possibility to set the input record level on the camera and even when it's turned all the way down it's still way to loud.

It worked out for this very quiet show by Angel Olsen http://youtu.be/OTJXBFSqfTo but most of the shows i visit are way louder and i got no results there.

My question to you would be; do i need a pre-amp. As i understand the pre-amp is normaly to get gain but i would say i don't need gain really.
Is there anything you could advise?

I know recording the audio separately would be preferred by most of you but i would like to avoid that. The less gear and the less post-production the better.

My apologies for my English, i know its mediocre at best, i hope you understand my story.

Thank you very much in advance.

K.

[bombdiggity]

It sounds like things are too loud. 

As you've started with the obvious (level setting in the camera)...

Assuming the mics themselves are not overloading and distorting from a higher SPL than they can deal with then you may need an attenuator to bring the levels down. 

A battery box or preamp can improve the maximum SPL and performance of the mics.  A preamp would also usually let you control the output level.  If the camera has a line in setting the pre could allow using that and eliminate potential issues in the chain. 

[Church-Audio]

Hi there tapers,

I've been lurching these forums for some while now and i learned quite a bit about stuff i didn't know nothing about. To be honest it's a world i didn't know existed. As i still find it hard to get my head around some of this technical stuff (never been good at that) i thought you might want to help me out a bit.

But first let me tell you a bit a bout myself and where  i'm coming from:
I've been visiting concerts and shows for about 20 years now and have a very broad taste; Indie, Dance, Harcore/punk, Americana, Metal (doom/stoner/black), HipHop and what not. Often it gets loud though.
The last couple of year i've been bringing a camcorder to almost all gigs i attend and i tend to film one or two songs of every act i see. I've been putting these up on youtube as a running log of shows i've seen. To help me remember when i'm old as i always say. ;-)
Started off with some simple flip-camera but upgraded over time and now use a Panasonic HDC SD90 camcorder. A camera which suits my needs quite well. I don't want to bring to much gear, i want to stay nimble and be to be able to start filming without to much hassle from whichever corner of the venue i'm at.
Recording is definitely not the main reason to visit a show and i always want to make sure i'm not bothering anyone. I never want to be that guy blocking the view for others.

That being said, it is nice to have a reasonable recording. I think the Panasonic has been doing quite well. Here's a recent clip of Neurosis' Scott Kelly i shot: http://youtu.be/bq-IsCpXggM

Now some of the local promotors have been very appreciative of my videos and have been inviting me to shoot some clips at their shows/festivals. To show my appreciation for those invitations i have been looking into upgrading the audio quality for those recordings.
So last year i've bought some Church Audio omnis and a battery box and plugged those in to the camcorder. The results have been a bit disappointing so i reckon i'm doing something wrong.

The input levels seem to be way to high for the camcorder and the sound comes out all distorted. There's a possibility to set the input record level on the camera and even when it's turned all the way down it's still way to loud.

It worked out for this very quiet show by Angel Olsen http://youtu.be/OTJXBFSqfTo but most of the shows i visit are way louder and i got no results there.

My question to you would be; do i need a pre-amp. As i understand the pre-amp is normaly to get gain but i would say i don't need gain really.
Is there anything you could advise?

I know recording the audio separately would be preferred by most of you but i would like to avoid that. The less gear and the less post-production the better.

My apologies for my English, i know its mediocre at best, i hope you understand my story.

Thank you very much in advance.

K.

You need my 9200 preamp it has an attenuator on the output that can drop the level down so that your camera's input will not be overloaded.

[KoenG]

Thank you Chris and bombdiggity.

@Chris Would your 9000 amp do the same? (Someone is selling one in the yard sale)

[Church-Audio]

Thank you Chris and bombdiggity.

@Chris Would your 9000 amp do the same? (Someone is selling one in the yard sale)

Yes the 9000 is the same in that it has an attenuation all the way down to -00 to +30 db. But its less flexible in the fact that you only have three settings for gain. 0 Or unity gain +10 and +30 db. If you need more flexibility then the 9200 is the way to go with the gain settings of 0db +10 db +15 db +25 db +35 db and +40 db.
So the choice is yours. The issue is what are you recording if its always super loud you will most likely be running 0db +10 db if you record shows that are sometimes quiet or in bigger spaces then having the extra gain and flexibility of the 9200 is an asset. The 9200 is on sale now for $139 + free shipping.

Chris
 

[KoenG]

Thank you Chris. Clear.

[F.O.Bean]

What about the 9100? I love how it has a variable gain knob and not stepped gain. Does it act he same way as an attenuator?

[Church-Audio]

What about the 9100? I love how it has a variable gain knob and not stepped gain. Does it act he same way as an attenuator?

It does not work the same way as the 9000 series preamps.