Topic: Live Music Recording

[sangerscorner1]

Hey guys! New here!! Great site!!

I just bought a Sony PCM-M10 for $199 (I just had to, considering I hadn't seen it priced that low anywhere).  I'm really excited about having this!  I used to record broadway musicals in the 90s / early 2000's with a minidisc recorder.  Those usually came out really great!  The minidisc recorder had the same "AUTO RECORD LEVEL" function, as this sony does.  I can not sit in a show and manually adjust anything.  I really have just have to press record, and let it go.  Do you think just by using auto record levels, with the internal microphones I can make some recent recordings with this device?? I would use the highest quality of WAV.  I'm not sure if I should have the Mic sensitivity at high or low, for this circumstance (Musicals/Theatre/Live Singing).  Let me know what you guys think!! I'm not trying to make soundboard quality audio.  I just don't want the audio to be distorted at all.  Let me know what you think, and what you think of this recorder in general?? It feels a little cheap (minidisc recorder felt solid to me), but it seems like a good deal!!

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Well, it will work, but im not sure how happy you will be with the results. For future reference, the biggest factors in determining audio quality are (in general order):


Location and setup of the mics
Quality of the mics
Preamp/gain path
Analog>digital conversion
File format.


Id try the low sensitivity setting of the two first.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

One HUGE advantage of the M10 vs. your Minidisc is that the M10 records in 24 bit. Because of this you can set your levels a little low and boost the recording in post-production.

Many times I will just set my levels where I think is good (I've learned how to guesstimate from a little experience) and just let it run (of course I set them LOW to make sure I never go over).

Ideally you will have EXTERNAL mics. Church Audio makes great inexpensive external mics. I'd wager that recording Broadway shows would require mics that are pretty small since you will be in a more lighted environment than a dark concert venue.

I've been pretty happy with my Countryman B3's. The are VERY small (I run them on my glasses), and they work great for the type of music you'd hear in most Broadway plays.

Cost is no object? Go with the DPA 4060's. These a pretty much the same mics that most Broadway plays use on the performers.

Nice thing about the B3's is you CAN run them directly into the M10 without a battery box (provides better power) or pre-amp. You'd get better sound with a pre-amp or battery box, but since Broadway plays tend not to be super loud I think you can get away without.

As far as build quality goes...the M10 is probably going to be more durable than any MiniDisc. I've seen some nice builds on MD recorders, but since the M10 has no moving parts it's unlikely to break any time soon.

[sangerscorner1]

Thanks so much for the replies!  I have this sony ecm-717 mic sitting around from when I used to use the minidisc recorder. It's so big, bulky, and old.  I'm sure that mic is a joke to you guys cuz you're the big leagues lol!  but do you think this mic would be better than the internal ones, at this point?? Also - Re: auto recording levels.  Will using auto recording levels with mic sensitivity on LOW, produce any kind of good recording? I know, i know, the manual levels make better recordings but what do you think of auto levels? Do they turn out dreadful, or just quite simply not as good as manual? Thanks guys!!

[trustthex]

ECM-717 will allow for better mic placement/positioning.  Using the internal mics w/ the recorder sitting in your lap will make a recording that sounds just like that.  However the frequency response of the built in mics are better than that of the 717, so....  use the 717 until you get an upgraded mic setup.

Pretty much everyone will tell you leave the auto gain control off, set your levels conservatively & fix it in post-processing.  Not too many record theater, but plenty of gear knowlege here.

Have fun!

[sangerscorner1]

thanks a ton!! much appreciated!!

[noahbickart]

I know, i know, the manual levels make better recordings but what do you think of auto levels? Do they turn out dreadful

Yes. You will hear noticeable and annoying pulsing of the volume.

As stated above, run the thing so that it peaks between 12 and 6. You'll only need a minute or two at the beginning of the performance to set your levels. The m10 has LEDs at 12 and over, which make it very easy to do.

External microphones are a must for anything resembling high-fi.

Browse this site for a while, and use the search function. All your questions have been answered many times before.

[sangerscorner1]

One last question!  At this point with what I have to work with (can't buy anything else just yet)

Would I be better off using Minidisc w/ Sony ECM 717 mic? (Auto levels)

Sony PCM-M10 with internal mics (auto levels)

or

Sony PCM-M10 with Sony ECM-717? (Auto levels) 

These are pretty much my options for right now.. Which would be best? I realize i'm not going to make a official CD sounding recording.  I just want it to be pretty decent! Thanks so much!!!

[trustthex]

Sony PCM-M10 with Sony ECM-717?

This. 



Trust us on the auto levels thing.  Crank your stereo at home, determine what settings on your m10 (low mic sensitivity) get acceptable levels (-6-12dB), use same settings when at theatre. 

(You can get away w/ checking levels now, people are now checking phones in all sorts of in appropriate places...)

[sangerscorner1]

you are the best! thank you!!!

[candor]

Don't forget the mic placement issue.  If you are using the internals on the M-10 they should be placed so sound will be unmuffled reaching them.  This precludes lap placement   Also having the recorder peek out of a shirt pocket is not ideal and any movement can give you noise as fabric rubs on the recorder. 

I'd really advise you to consider/save for some good external mics such as the new church 11s.  They are small, inexpensive, and sound very good.  If you get omnis you can move some with them clipped to your clothes and not affect sound.  Cards will help lessen audience noise if they can be aimed at the sound source but will be more sensitive to movement or poor placement.

Most shows can be taped with similar record levels (except really loud shows like Rock of Ages) so once you learn the settings for a particular setup you should be good to go  for most shows.  Like the other posters have said, no to auto level-it really pulses and sounds badly.  Unlike most folks, I do use the limiter because applause is often louder than the show (especially with a loud clapper next to you) but I set the levels so that normal show volume is -6 to -12. 

Hope this helps.