Topic: Recording Comparison: CA14 Omni vs Card vs CoreSound 4060

[Bullet1979]

I went to a show last night and recorded with both pairs of CA14 mics.  I then saw that someone with a set of Core Sound HEB's (DPA 4060's) recorded the same show from roughly the same spot, so I figured it would be neat to showcase a comparison between the three mics and get feedback on what people think.

The sources are as follows:
CA-14 Cardioids -> CAUGLY preamp -> R-09HR
CA-14 Omnis -> MM-MBM Battery Box with roll-off @195hz -> R-09
Core Sound HEB's -> R-09HR

I'm not sure if the other taper used a battery box or preamp - the source info doesn't mention one so I'm guessing he didn't so I suppose that should be considered in the comparison.  This certainly is a testament to the bang for your buck you get with Chris' mics.  The venue was Lincoln Hall in Chicago and we were both positioned on the balcony, left side.  These are all stealthy recordings also!

[LikeASong]

This will be regarded as *yet another* invalid comp due to mainly this sentence "recorded the same show from roughly the same spot"... Roughly the same spot, when it comes to comparations, means an invalid comp for many people.

To me, though, it doesn't matter as much, and I agree that this is *yet another* testament on how effin' good do a $120 microphones stand up against $~950 mics.  Thanks

[Bullet1979]

This will be regarded as *yet another* invalid comp due to mainly this sentence "recorded the same show from roughly the same spot"... Roughly the same spot, when it comes to comparations, means an invalid comp for many people.

To me, though, it doesn't matter as much, and I agree that this is *yet another* testament on how effin' good do a $120 microphones stand up against $~950 mics.  Thanks

I understand what you are saying... especially considering these are both stealthy recordings.  In this case, "roughly the same spot" translates to about 5 feet apart.  I suppose I didn't mean for this to be a scientific experiment but more of a casual comp - sorry for offending anyone with the misleading title!

[Ultfris101]

No worries, these types of posts just generate a lot of subjective discussion. There was a recent such comp thread which got particularly heated leading to LAS's comment.  I for one take these for what they are and appreciate the comparisons.

When I get some time at my computer I'll check these out. thanks for taking the time.

[yltfan]

Unless the tapers were in some extremely crucial location (e.g. right in front of a stack), wouldn't other factors be more important than the five feet between them? Configuration, height, whether or not they are buried under three layers of clothes?

Anyway, I'm with Ultfris--I'd rather have the imperfect comparisons than none at all.

[LikeASong]

I think my first post in this thread is being misunterstood I was being critical against those who automatically despise a comparision only because the mics weren't at the exact same spot and recording with the exact same pattern, etc etc. Location is important and can be crucial, but a biased/imperfect comparison is miles better than no comparison

[adrianf74]

I think the bottom line here is that this comp shows that the CA mics can hold their own against mics at 6-8x the price (something many of us already know).

I found the CS 4060 HEB's to be a little unnaturally bright (assuming the DPA short-boost grids were on the mics) and the CA-14 omnis to be a little "dull."  The dullness could be EQ'd in post to get a nice, natural result.  The CA-14 cards, IMHO, were the least "nice" sounding of the bunch (but then again, many people around here know how I feel about "small" cards and my bias towards omnis).

There's something interesting I'll add in here.  I was looking at picking up the 4060's that were in the yard recently until AcidJack reminded me about how I didn't like the DPA sound and this just reinforced that for me.   illconditioned also mentioned how he's not a fan of the DPA's and quipped about not wanting to hear my recordings made with them after I had my set a few years ago.   I'm glad I didn't take the plunge although I'm really interested in hearing the new CA-11 Series II omnis that Chris says are even better sounding than the CA-14 omnis.   I should have mine in hand later this month (long story) and will be rolling on a show with them on the last weekend of the month.  Will post a sample for those who want to hear them.  I think my buddy might roll AT-933 cards at the same time so I could always A-B those since he'll be standing right next to me (again - not a PERFECT COMP - but better than nothing).

ADDED: I'll give this another listen to when I'm at home tomorrow on my stereo system to give it true comparison.  The speakers on my PC at work kinda suck.

[acidjack]

If anything, this "comp", which I have to say, really does seem invalid (two dudes not standing in the same place, not the same heights, likely some inconsistency in mounting, and the 4060s having the distinct disadvantage of being an overdriven Coresound set that doesn't power the mics correctly....) demonstrates the superiority of the 4060s pretty definitively, IMO. 

I'm actually kind of blown away at how much I prefer the 4060s, to the point that I feel like this comp may be unfair to the CA-14s. If I were to guess, the CA-14 user was much shorter in height, given how muddy and distant the CA-14 omnis sound. 

[beatkilla]

I strongly prefer the one labelled as DPA 4060.
The snare drum sounds like a real snare in a real room.And the tambourine or egg shaker is also spot on.

The CA omni is muddy and not as transparent and the CA card is too thin with unreal sounding snare drum.

[Bullet1979]

"... the CA-14 omnis to be a little "dull."  The dullness could be EQ'd in post to get a nice, natural result..."

I guess this may be more appropriate to post in a different forum, but I'm interested to know what kind of EQ adjustments you would make.  I agree with your opinion but I just cannot grasp the art of adjusting EQ... 

[Bullet1979]

If anything, this "comp", which I have to say, really does seem invalid (two dudes not standing in the same place, not the same heights, likely some inconsistency in mounting, and the 4060s having the distinct disadvantage of being an overdriven Coresound set that doesn't power the mics correctly....) demonstrates the superiority of the 4060s pretty definitively, IMO. 

I'm actually kind of blown away at how much I prefer the 4060s, to the point that I feel like this comp may be unfair to the CA-14s. If I were to guess, the CA-14 user was much shorter in height, given how muddy and distant the CA-14 omnis sound.

Actually, we were both up in the balcony at the height of the speakers.  The left speaker stack was probably only 10-15 feet away so maybe that's why the cards seem thin/flat?

[acidjack]

If anything, this "comp", which I have to say, really does seem invalid (two dudes not standing in the same place, not the same heights, likely some inconsistency in mounting, and the 4060s having the distinct disadvantage of being an overdriven Coresound set that doesn't power the mics correctly....) demonstrates the superiority of the 4060s pretty definitively, IMO. 

I'm actually kind of blown away at how much I prefer the 4060s, to the point that I feel like this comp may be unfair to the CA-14s. If I were to guess, the CA-14 user was much shorter in height, given how muddy and distant the CA-14 omnis sound.

Actually, we were both up in the balcony at the height of the speakers.  The left speaker stack was probably only 10-15 feet away so maybe that's why the cards seem thin/flat?

I didn't listen to the cardiods. The 4060s sounded awesome; the CA-14 omnis sounded muddy.  Were you guys seated?  Even if that, are you exactly the same height?

[Bullet1979]

I was seated and leaning over the edge of the balcony with a clean direct line to the speakers.  He was standing behind the one row of chairs. 

Would that small amount of height be such a huge factor when we're in a balcony a full story above the people down below - especially when I had nothing between myself and the speakers?

[acidjack]

I was seated and leaning over the edge of the balcony with a clean direct line to the speakers.  He was standing behind the one row of chairs. 

Would that small amount of height be such a huge factor when we're in a balcony a full story above the people down below - especially when I had nothing between myself and the speakers?

Without seeing the room, how you guys mounted, etc. hard to say.  If he was right behind you I wouldn't say the height, in and of itself, was that much of an issue.