Do I get the Schoeps MK4, MK41's or MK5?

[sparkey]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

So you disagree...can you explain why? 

I spent a lot of time FOB with cards making stellar tapes....I noticed the guys with the hypers at the back of the room were also making stellar tapes without the stress of crowd control or showing up 3 hours early.

[F.O.Bean]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

So you disagree...can you explain why? 

I spent a lot of time FOB with cards making stellar tapes....I noticed the guys with the hypers at the back of the room were also making stellar tapes without the stress of crowd control or showing up 3 hours early.

1100% agreed sparked! And as far and lo pro screens the B5/B5D do a wonderful job and are a lot smaller than the bigass shures

[sparkey]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

So you disagree...can you explain why? 

I spent a lot of time FOB with cards making stellar tapes....I noticed the guys with the hypers at the back of the room were also making stellar tapes without the stress of crowd control or showing up 3 hours early.

and lo pro screens the B5/B5D do a wonderful job and are a lot smaller than the bigass shures

If they're the ones I'm thinking of they will fit under a hat

[F.O.Bean]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

So you disagree...can you explain why? 

I spent a lot of time FOB with cards/hypers making stellar tapes....I noticed the guys with the hypers at the back of the room were also making stellar tapes without the stress of crowd control or showing up 3 hours early.

And I mainly record FOB/DFC WITH my hypers[483>MBHO>Schoeps] and they sound KILLER there too Seems like folks are afraid to run hypers in those great locations where everyone says to run cards/omnis, etc......... Thats where I think the mk41 REALLY SHINE, is when theyre FOB/DFC. Dont get me wrong, mk4/mk21/mk2 sound killer there too. But if someone wants to run mk41s FOB/DFC, then DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT! They will contain less much chatter especially if you want or need to run your stand lower around head height Search my LMA links under "diskobean" on everyone of my posts and search for my mk41 recordings. Just get the mk41s if you only have the $$$ for ONE set of capsules! And get a Tinybox with OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS and youll be thanking me later.

IMO, the Schoeps>Naiant sound is as top notch as you can get soundwise IMO. IMO that combo sounds just as good/better than ANY OTHER preamp combo out there, regardless of the costs Hell, I like Both of my Littleboxes soundwise better than my old Sonosax[Lemo], and thats the god honest truth

Best of luck with your search, and DL a TON of my mk41>Lemosax/Naiant Littlebox sources on the LMA first, so you know exactly what sound youre getting into

Bean

[Jonas Karlsson]

And I mainly record FOB/DFC WITH my hypers[483>MBHO>Schoeps] and they sound KILLER there too Seems like folks are afraid to run hypers in those great locations where everyone says to run cards/omnis, etc......... Thats where I think the mk41 REALLY SHINE, is when theyre FOB/DFC. Dont get me wrong, mk4/mk21/mk2 sound killer there too. But if someone wants to run mk41s FOB/DFC, then DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT! They will contain less much chatter especially if you want or need to run your stand lower around head height Search my LMA links under "diskobean" on everyone of my posts and search for my mk41 recordings. Just get the mk41s if you only have the $$$ for ONE set of capsules! And get a Tinybox with OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS and youll be thanking me later.

IMO, the Schoeps>Naiant sound is as top notch as you can get soundwise IMO. IMO that combo sounds just as good/better than ANY OTHER preamp combo out there, regardless of the costs Hell, I like Both of my Littleboxes soundwise better than my old Sonosax[Lemo], and thats the god honest truth

Best of luck with your search, and DL a TON of my mk41>Lemosax/Naiant Littlebox sources on the LMA first, so you know exactly what sound youre getting into

Bean

Thanks Bean, I will defenitely check it out.

The thing is, I'd like to have a mic that will suit best in MOST situations. I never sit and record, never use a stand - always stand on the floor as we do in Europe. BUT - as I'm not getting younger, it would be nice to feel that I could buy seats on the side in the future to be able to record shows with some sort of card/supercard, still in stealthmode. More likely is that I will continue to record from the stands, but a bit further back.

I'd like the experience of taping of festivals to continue - and that's probably something to discuss. What would work best there? A MK4 in front of the PA (30-100ft from the PA) or the MK41? Which would work best without a "dead muppet" or "dead rat" or whatever you call it?  Standing DFC at festivals is a bad idea (at least in Europe) since that's where all people cue up to stand. The sides are much better, regarding less people (more room for taping).

It seems, however, that the samples I hear from the Schoeps overall - has not been eq'd or tampered with. That's really the MAIN reason for the upgrade.

/Jonas

[scb]

my thinking has always been:

If I need hypers, I'm too far away

[Jonas Karlsson]

my thinking has always been:

If I need hypers, I'm too far away

True 

[stevetoney]

Ha...you added MK5 to the debate that has no answer.   

[Jonas Karlsson]

Ha...you added MK5 to the debate that has no answer.   

Hahaha! It really doesn't need any answer. The debate is good enough

/Jonas

[cashandkerouac]

And I mainly record FOB/DFC WITH my hypers[483>MBHO>Schoeps] and they sound KILLER there too Seems like folks are afraid to run hypers in those great locations where everyone says to run cards/omnis, etc......... Thats where I think the mk41 REALLY SHINE, is when theyre FOB/DFC. Dont get me wrong, mk4/mk21/mk2 sound killer there too. But if someone wants to run mk41s FOB/DFC, then DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT! They will contain less much chatter especially if you want or need to run your stand lower around head height Search my LMA links under "diskobean" on everyone of my posts and search for my mk41 recordings. Just get the mk41s if you only have the $$$ for ONE set of capsules! And get a Tinybox with OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS and youll be thanking me later.

IMO, the Schoeps>Naiant sound is as top notch as you can get soundwise IMO. IMO that combo sounds just as good/better than ANY OTHER preamp combo out there, regardless of the costs Hell, I like Both of my Littleboxes soundwise better than my old Sonosax[Lemo], and thats the god honest truth

Best of luck with your search, and DL a TON of my mk41>Lemosax/Naiant Littlebox sources on the LMA first, so you know exactly what sound youre getting into

Bean

Thanks Bean, I will defenitely check it out.

The thing is, I'd like to have a mic that will suit best in MOST situations. I never sit and record, never use a stand - always stand on the floor as we do in Europe. BUT - as I'm not getting younger, it would be nice to feel that I could buy seats on the side in the future to be able to record shows with some sort of card/supercard, still in stealthmode. More likely is that I will continue to record from the stands, but a bit further back.

I'd like the experience of taping of festivals to continue - and that's probably something to discuss. What would work best there? A MK4 in front of the PA (30-100ft from the PA) or the MK41? Which would work best without a "dead muppet" or "dead rat" or whatever you call it?  Standing DFC at festivals is a bad idea (at least in Europe) since that's where all people cue up to stand. The sides are much better, regarding less people (more room for taping).

It seems, however, that the samples I hear from the Schoeps overall - has not been eq'd or tampered with. That's really the MAIN reason for the upgrade.

/Jonas

i can't speak specifically to the mk41 caps, but hypers or super-cards up close can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the stage setup. 

if i am front row recording a full band on a decent size stage i do not like using hypers/sub-cards because the soundfield is just too wide at that short distance for hypers/super-cards to yield a balanced recording.  the instruments at the far ends of the stage can be very low in the mix because of the narrow pickup pattern of the hypers/super-cards and the instruments right in front of you are sometimes too loud in the mix.  there is not much you can do in post-production to correct that situation.

if i am in the front row recording a solo performer or a small band that is set up in the middle of the stage then hypers/super-cards can be fantastic.

i think your decision to go with MK4, MK41 or MK5 caps is largely contingent on your taping style(s).  if you are a taper that is always going to be in the same spot then you should probably go with the mic that will work best for that taping location based on your preferences and tatse for sound.  if you are likely to change positions from night to night you probably need a more general purpose mic or several mics so you can select the best tool for the job on any particular night. 

there really is no correct answer here.  i think the biggest variable in the equation is YOU, not so much the mics.  all the caps you mention are stellar!

[bombdiggity]

I have the official schoeps screens (which may be essential for the 4V's due to their different orientation to the sound source).  They're fine in a fairly stiff breeze and are actually pretty small.  I've not used the mics in a real wind storm. 

When the wind is really whipping I've resorted to covering the SP's with a thin shirt (going under the shirt rather than over top) and have not really noticed any ill effects on the sound (at least compared to getting the major rumble the windscreens I have for them can't knock down).

Ok, this means the official windscreens may be enough for stealth. The hat cuts some wind too.

Are you referring to these: http://www.thomann.de/se/schoeps_b5.htm ?

I haven't gotten any problems with the CA14's, which have the screens "built in" and can't be removed.

Really excited about getting a matched pair of Schoeps, which ever capsule it will be in the end 

/Jonas

I don't think I'd ever run my mics under a hat if that's what you're saying... 

I have these:

http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/b5d

They have a plastic frame built inside which keeps a clear void area around the mic (and they're recommended by Schoeps for the 4V whereas the foam only B5 is not). 

If you're in a situation where you may have pressure against the windscreen I'd definitely use the B5D to ensure that void area remains around the capsule.

My SP's do have a foam only screen that slips over touching the capsule but it is a much lighter foam than what the B5D uses and does not cut the wind nearly as well (that may be why the SP ones can actually work OK while touching the mic). 

The B5D are very heavy duty and Schoeps says there is no impact on the sound.  I've not needed dead rats yet when using them. 

[bombdiggity]

On the pattern element;

FWIW due to general yahoo-ness of a particular crowd I once ran my 4V's from just about the last row all the way back in a mid-sized hall.  It actually sounded a lot better on tape than it did to my ear there.  There was way too much reverb live (a vocalist with some piano/keys) but that actually didn't come through much on the recording, which sounded better than most of what I heard from that tour.  People thought I'd made it up front.  There was also no yapping, which was a big issue on this tour (great isolation, with the crowd level at ends of songs on par with the music instead of way too loud). 

Rather than dealing with people jumping up and down, yapping and yelling, shuffling seats and constantly moving while I had to do some sort of hand-held job dodging dingbats I just went to the back where there were several empty rows, set up a stand and let it run.  In my old age with a stand is more my speed... 

[scb]

the narrow pickup pattern of the hypers/sub-cards

Hypers have a narrower pickup pattern than cards. But subcards, also called "wide cardioids" have a wider pattern.  They're basically between a cardioid and an omni

[cashandkerouac]

the narrow pickup pattern of the hypers/sub-cards

Hypers have a narrower pickup pattern than cards. But subcards, also called "wide cardioids" have a wider pattern.  They're basically between a cardioid and an omni

thanks for the correction... should have used the term super-cardioid instead.  that's what i get for trying to be fancy.   

note to self:
(1) Supercardioids are a variant of a hypercardioid (and often not distinguished from them) but usually reckoned to reject sound best at 150°.  They have an exaggerated version of the cardioid pattern with greater emphasis on picking up sound directly in front. 
(2) Subcardioids or wide cardioids are versions of hypocardioid (less than cardioid) patterns - slightly more directional than an omni but no more than that. They are most easily distinguished by their rear sensitivity - anything from 2-18 dB lower compared to their front sensitivity.

[sparkey]

41s!  Ok lock the thread.