Topic: DPA 4061 or NTG2?

[Nujabes]

Hello, I'm recently planning to start a Youtube show. I've a done some research and find that I'm interested in the DPA 4061. The reason why I'm making this thread is because I'm still at the fence about it. I know the DPA will help me for this specific scenario, Youtube web base shows, but at the same time later down the road, around six months from here, I'm planning on making a short film. I have done some research and people recommend shotgun microphones instead of lavalier microphones.

But I wonder, in this test blog

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

Going down to 'Test #5' and listening on the 4061 cut between 2 well respected big production shotgun mics, is it still worth it to get the shotgun mic after viewing the samples recorded between the cuts?

Also on 'Test #4' since the 4061 produce no audible cable noise, and factor in 'Test #5', in theory, can the DPA 4061 be clamped onto a boom pole to replace shotgun mics?

On a side note, I wont be using a a Zoom or Tascam preamp, instead I'll be using either a UR22 or Scarlett 2i4.

All in all, the DPA 4061 costs around $400+, whiles the preamps cost $150+. Or I can save money by getting an NTG2 $220+ along with the preamp....... Frustrating.


What are you guys thought on this, please.

[Gutbucket]

The best microphone is always determined by the specifics of the application. You are much more likely to find good music recording advice here at Taperssection than dialog recording advice.

If the application is dialog recording for youtube videos or film, both lavaliers and shotguns are typically the microphones of choice unless the person talking is going to have a microphone held to their mouth.  That may seem ironic considering that those two types of microphones are about as opposite as microphones can get, but the specifics of how they are used for recording dialog are very different.

Lavalier microphones like the 4061 are omnidirectional and work based upon the ability to hide them on the person talking providing extreme proximity to that sound source compared to anything else.  Shotguns like the NTG2 are highly directional and work by focusing on the person speaking from far enough away that the microphone can be just out of frame.  That may not seem much farther away, but is far enough that the extreme difference in directionality matters a lot.  Those specifics favor an entirely different type of microphone.   

I haven't checked out the blog or samples linked, but be aware of differences in the way the mics were used to make the samples and the way they will need to be used to do what you want to do. Also keep in mind that sometimes the most important difference is not what you hear but what you don't (or won't in a more realistic situation than the sample recording session).

Music recording is an entirely different application, and the specifics of how omnis and shotguns are best used for recording it are pretty much as different as they are for dialog recording.  A 4061 on a boom pole (or a few of them) can be a great way to record music from much farther away than a shotgun mic needs to be from an actor, for reasons that have very little to do with why either may be a good choice for dialog work.

[Nujabes]

The best microphone is always determined by the specifics of the application. You are much more likely to find good music recording advice here at Taperssection than dialog recording advice.

If the application is dialog recording for youtube videos or film, both lavaliers and shotguns are typically the microphones of choice unless the person talking is going to have a microphone held to their mouth.  That may seem ironic considering that those two types of microphones are about as opposite as microphones can get, but the specifics of how they are used for recording dialog are very different.

Lavalier microphones like the 4061 are omnidirectional and work based upon the ability to hide them on the person talking providing extreme proximity to that sound source compared to anything else.  Shotguns like the NTG2 are highly directional and work by focusing on the person speaking from far enough away that the microphone can be just out of frame.  That may not seem much farther away, but is far enough that the extreme difference in directionality matters a lot.  Those specifics favor an entirely different type of microphone.   

I haven't checked out the blog or samples linked, but be aware of differences in the way the mics were used to make the samples and the way they will need to be used to do what you want to do. Also keep in mind that sometimes the most important difference is not what you hear but what you don't (or won't in a more realistic situation than the sample recording session).

Music recording is an entirely different application, and the specifics of how omnis and shotguns are best used for recording it are pretty much as different as they are for dialog recording.  A 4061 on a boom pole (or a few of them) can be a great way to record music from much farther away than a shotgun mic needs to be from an actor, for reasons that have very little to do with why either may be a good choice for dialog work.

Thanks, I was waiting for an in depth insight, but the insight is kind of a moot point if you haven't even consider fully understanding the context of my post. Perhaps can you please consider doing so and let me know your further thoughts on the specified situation? I already understand the pro's and con's of lavaliers and shotguns but what I don't understand is my return on investment based on my specified situation.

[Gutbucket]

It depends on the specifics of what you are doing and how it will be mic'd.  Top quality lavaliers are not going to replace the functionality of a boom-mircophone.  If I needed a boom-mic and was limited by budget, I'd choose less costly lavaliers to leave enough budget for a boom-mic.

[Nujabes]

I went ahead got the DPA. Now the new problem is that it has a 3-pin lemo connector. Where would I get an adapter to xlr for this?

[Nujabes]

Pretty sure it's a 3-pin lemo.

Got it fom here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DPA-4061-3-Pin-Lemo-MICROPHONE-beige-/251525338653?nma=true&si=o9wMFjdz09BITIVs21s61veSjuU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Well I'm not sure anymore....

[Nujabes]

How do I go about reterminating it? Also how much to do it as well?

[aaronji]

Don't forget you need to power the mic...So you'll either need an additional box between the mic and the pre or you'll need an adapter to convert the P48 from the pre to something that won't kill the mic.  Those choices will determine how you want to terminate the mic.

[Nujabes]

It doesn't matter anymore, after little help here I went and got an adapter for my 3pin lemo to xlr.

[rastasean]

Oh, boy, this guy's going to have fun and what an attitude s/he's got!

Also keep in mind that sometimes the most important difference is not what you hear but what you don't (or won't in a more realistic situation than the sample recording session).

This is very true. The majority of us have refrigerators and air conditioners but we've tuned those out of our hearing years and years ago and accepted the fact that we don't hear them; microphones will always record what you didn't hear when you were recording that scene. Don't expect that your recording will turn out like a Hollywood movie without serious consideration to the smallest noises. Not to mention that a lot of recordings are done on a sound folly after the move is actually recorded.

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

It doesn't matter anymore, after little help here I went and got an adapter for my 3pin lemo to xlr.

If you try to power your 4061 with 48 Volt phantom power via the XLR, you'll destroy the 4061.

The 4061 needs to be powered by 9 Volts or less, with a current limiting resistor. We manufacture a battery box for it and can terminate it in many ways.

For more information, contact us via phone or email.

[thekenster7600]

I have a Beyerdynamic MV-100 preamp that runs on (2) 9V batteries. If I purchase some DPA 4061's can I just plug them into the XLR imputs on the Beyer? Also, is there a recommended preamp to power the mics? Thanks in advance,

Ken

[Gutbucket]

You can power the DPA miniature microphones using any P48V supply with an XLR input (such as your Beyer) by using adapters which step down the 48V phantom supply voltage to the ~5-9V that the microphones use. The adapter also creates a balanced output.  DPA makes those with microdot terminations which fit the microphones.  Niaint PFAs (Jon Stoppable, TS member) will work identically but are not available with microdot, so to use those either the microphones must be re-terminated or you'll need microdot adapters.

Or

You can power the DPA miniature microphones directly using a ~5-9V supply.  That could be a battery box (DPA makes them with microdots, or other makes such as Church Audio (Chris Church, TS member), etc.), or a low voltage supply preamp.  The DPA MMA6000 stereo preamp is an obvious choice, designed specifically for these microphones with microdot inputs, and runs on a single 9V battery for about 24hrs.  Other preamps which provide Plug In Power ranging from about ~5-9V will also work, usually requiring re-termination or adapters just like the non-DPA phantom adapters mentioned above.

Consider what sensitivity is most appropriate for what you are recording.  The 4060 is considerably more sensitive (and also quieter) than the 4061.  Enough so that you may not need any additional preamplification using the 4060, however when things get loud the 4060's higher output level might overload inputs which can't handle the higher input levels which may approach line-level.

4060-
Sens= 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Max SPL=134 dB
Self noise= Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))

4061-
Sens= 6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Max SPL= 144 dB
Self noise= Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))