SONOSAX SX-R4+ & SX-AD8+ Delayed

[lubage]

I pre-ordered the R4+ back in May (I think) and have been following the jwsoundgroup threads about this.  Just my opinion - I think Sonosax came to the conclusion that they may have inadvertently infringed on one of Zaxcom's patents.  How hard would it have been to get a deck with NeverClip and compare the machines and circuit schemas?  I'd be shocked if they didn't do this, given that they have decided to release a U.S. version with a lower dynamic range.

I hope the two parties can come together amicably but based on what I've read, it doesn't look very promising.

[stevetoney]

^ Looks to me like Sax simply decided they don't want to pay to play. 

If Zax owns the patent, they have the right to protect their patent.  Sonosax's claim that everyone shares technology is IMHO a dumb business statement and it has nothing to do with whether or not Zaxcom owns the patent.  Patents exist for a reason so if Sax developed technology way back when but didn't apply for the patent, then that's their dumb business move...if you snooze you lose.

It seems pretty clear to me that since Sax won't be challenging the patent who is in the right here.  It's seems to me like it's just sour grapes for Sax to issue statements about Zax being unwilling to share technology for free...technology which Zaxcom apparently rightly owns.

Sax isn't willing to cut their profit margins by paying Zax their due in licensing fees, so you USA customers are getting a lesser product.  They're just trying to make Zax out to be the bad guy for being unwilling to give away something Sax thinks they should give away for free.

[aaronji]

^ That is a reasonable interpretation, but it's also possible that Zaxcom was demanding unreasonably high license fees in order to stifle some competition...

[H₂O]

I read it more as a Zaxcom is acting like a Patent Troll here by taking a trivial idea (an idea that has been around for 25 years or more) and patenting a spin on it (i.e. the algorithim put into the DSP to crecombine the streams)

Which in turn forces Sonosax to play ball and have to spend extra capital to prove we aren't infringing on Zaxcom's patent - when in the past there was an un-written rule not to do this - as the companies are small

I agree that when a company spends many tens of millions of dollars to develop a technology over a number of years then it should receive a patent and it should be protected,
but when a company spends a trivial amount of time (probably no more than 200 man hours of development and maybe another 100 man hours to patent - based on technological concepts 25 years old) in order to block out competition as a predatory practice.

To give you an example I would never patent my tube power supply (even though I spent probably the same amount of time or more then Zaxcom did programming a DSP) as I feel it would benefit the community more then me being a selfish prick aimed at personal gain.

If Zaxcom had come up with some truely revolutionary idea with Neverclip maybe I would be more sympathetic but that is not the case here.

[stevetoney]

I read it more as a Zaxcom is acting like a Patent Troll here by taking a trivial idea (an idea that has been around for 25 years or more) and patenting a spin on it (i.e. the algorithim put into the DSP to crecombine the streams)

Which in turn forces Sonosax to play ball and have to spend extra capital to prove we aren't infringing on Zaxcom's patent - when in the past there was an un-written rule not to do this - as the companies are small

I agree that when a company spends many tens of millions of dollars to develop a technology over a number of years then it should receive a patent and it should be protected,
but when a company spends a trivial amount of time (probably no more than 200 man hours of development and maybe another 100 man hours to patent - based on technological concepts 25 years old) in order to block out competition as a predatory practice.

To give you an example I would never patent my tube power supply (even though I spent probably the same amount of time or more then Zaxcom did programming a DSP) as I feel it would benefit the community more then me being a selfish prick aimed at personal gain.

If Zaxcom had come up with some truely revolutionary idea with Neverclip maybe I would be more sympathetic but that is not the case here.

It's not that I disagree with any of these points.  When two companies are in a public tit-for-tat blame game type of argument, you can never know for sure what the real story is.  But the fact is that a patent was granted...so no matter whether it was a 'spin' on an old idea or not, the fact remains that Zaxcom owns the patent.

a)  Just because Sax claims it's old technology doesn't make it so.  The fact that the algorithm was 'revolutionary' was proven, in essence, by the fact that the patent was granted. 

b)  The amount invested has never had any bearing on the value of a patent.  In fact, the simpler the idea the greater the need for a patent to protect from infringement. 

[H₂O]

It's pretty evident that the US patent system is broken (not based on this - based on all the garbage patent trolls get away and I have dealt with some of this in my job with telco patents)  - the idea that Zaxcom came up with is definitely NOT revolutionary and as mentioned any other threads before Sonosax's message was thought up at least 20 years ago

I wonder if Zaxcom will go after Neumann next

[kingkita]

[aaronji]

That is a fine looking piece o' gear!  I really like the kind of minimalist, uncluttered design...

[Life In Rewind]

That is a fine looking piece o' gear!  I really like the kind of minimalist, uncluttered design...

I get that  - but it also looks like a homemade prototype...like it just came out of the 3-D printer.

[stevetoney]

Sweet.  Looks like you'll want to get a hirose connector for powering from a Tekkeon.  What's the function of the small attachment on the right with the coax?

[kingkita]

WiFI Steve i just hadn't screwed the antenna in yet,I played with that last night works pretty good and you can control it via phone tablet.

[stevetoney]

WiFI Steve i just hadn't screwed the antenna in yet,I played with that last night works pretty good and you can control it via phone tablet.

Hell yes!  That should be a really awesome function to have.  I fully expect some streamed FOB Phish for couch tour next summer.  You have no excuse now.  LOL

[Jhurlbs81]

Beautiful design.  I love it.

[F.O.Bean]

That is a fine looking piece o' gear!  I really like the kind of minimalist, uncluttered design...

I get that  - but it also looks like a homemade prototype...like it just came out of the 3-D printer.

Agreed! I like the minimalistic design and all, but that seems like an unfinished product and not something that got DEELAYED Its like they didnt care where they put what They just said "this goes here, this goes here" without any thought out design? For being delayed and all the BS yinz went through to get them, I was expecting a MUCH MORE finished product

[F.O.Bean]

WiFI Steve i just hadn't screwed the antenna in yet,I played with that last night works pretty good and you can control it via phone tablet.

Hell yes!  That should be a really awesome function to have.  I fully expect some streamed FOB Phish for couch tour next summer.  You have no excuse now.  LOL

Now THAT is dope! You could have it streaming to your phone/laptop and stream the show for everyone pretty easily