Topic: Head-baffled omni's - how far from stage is still useful?

[yates7592]

I've used the head-baffle technique on my 4006's with great success at stage-lip and  many times before. I have a show coming up where I know I'm going to be further back because it's a seated show in 1,000 capacity hall and the seats are not pre-allocated so there is uncertainty as to where exactly I'll be. I'm hoping to be central within the first half dozen rows but who knows. Could I still use this technique to give good channel separation and reasonable stereo image? I can imagine that as you move further back from stage the apparent channel separation will degrade more and more until such point as you become almost mono?

Would there be an advantage in using DPA APE's in this situation or not?

I could also place the mics in ORTF (I have a custom made bar) with 40mm APE's, I've read about this being used with omni's before but have no idea how well it works, but I would like to try.

Thanks in advance.

[Gutbucket]

In the first half-dozen rows your are fine.

Head-worn HTRF recordings are similar to human hearing - the recording sounds like it would if you were actually sitting there, where ever that is.  Imaging won't degrade to mono as you move farther back than that, but the listening perspective and reverberance changes.  You'll get an accurate HRTF recording of the ambient room sound from that alternate position. What changes is the stage-width perspective and direct/reverberant sound balance.  Wider front-stage, more exciting and impactful from up front, more reverberant and distant from farther back.

Other microphone techniques can change the recording's perspective and direct/reverberant balance to something different than what would be heard live with your head placed where the microphones are.  That can be advantageous when recording in location where an ambient HTRF recording would sound overly distant.

APE's make the mics slightly directional at high frequencies and provide a presence-range boost, both of which can help from further back.  They will not make the microphones as directional as cardioids so a narrow ORTF arrangement is not optimal (unless you put a baffle between the mics).  A wider spacing the farther you move back helps keep the stage perspective wide as the perspective narrows - the Stereo Zoom thing.  That works very well outside.  Inside, the room must be very good sounding for omnis to work well the farther back you go.  Best you can do is point the APE'd omnis directly forward (increasing the ratio of direct/reverberant pickup as much as possible) and space them apart more if you can (to widen the more distance stage image).

If your only other mounting choice is the ORTF bar, go ahead and try using that with the APEs if that gets the mics higher or in a more direct line of sight than head-mounted.  HTRF with 4006 and APEs would make for an odd and ungainly hat to wear.

[yates7592]

Thanks for your input, much appreciated. So from what you are saying my best bet is to go HTRF with APE's. That will be hat mounted, as would an ORTF bar. Bearing in mind that it will all be undercover on my head do you still think pointing straight forward with APE'S is going to give better results than ORTF with APE's?

[Gutbucket]

With all that stuff on your head you might end up looking like an APE!

Didn't realize you were talking head-worn using the ORTF mount and APE attachments.
Let me think..

With omnis, even APE'd I'd want more spacing between them than the 17cm (ORTF specification) unless I had some sort of baffle between them like a Jecklin-disk, myself, the purse of a lovely date, pizza box, whatever.  Keep your head between them - any barrier that extends to block the line from each capsule to the opposite side of the stage, or PA stack on the opposite side.  If you can actually wear them like that with the APEs on there, well, its worth the try.  Sounds tough.

The suggestion to use the ORFT mount and APEs assumed open seat-taping as a way to get them up slightly higher without as much blockage around them.  A clear path to the direct sound source for good clarity and tonal balance is more important to me than sufficient channel separation for better imaging.  But since they will be head mounted either-way and more or less in the same position in space, use your head as baffle to improve things.   I'd go HRTF instead of the ORTF-mount with or without the APEs.

[yates7592]

Thanks I agree that HTRF is the way to go assuming I can bag a seat up front. And I will use the 40 mm APE's.

[Tom McCreadie]

If you're determined to use omni's and are not constrained by a high-stealth requirement, going with a Jecklin disk placed in front of your face might be less preposterous than it seems: for supported by a small stand, placed on the floor between your legs, this would give a more wobble-free image than anything from head-worn gear...and it would present a low visual profile to any audience members directly behind you.

Admittedly, it would impede your own view - but we all listen to good music with our eyes shut anyway?  :-)