Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Anyone know the market price for Vintage Neumann KMF 4i's in good condition?  (Read 3831 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

df

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)


1980's KMF 4i to be more specific.  (1980's active stereo pair)

I've found a couple recent ad's asking about $2K, but that's all.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:07:00 PM by df »

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
Out of curiosity I bought two of these microphones on eBay during the past year. I have yet to try them, but I know another engineer who used to use them, and thought well of them at the time (he now uses Schoeps instead).

Do keep in mind that this is a completely orphaned model. No model-specific repair parts, accessories or replacement capsules are available from Neumann any more. The Lemo connectors needed resoldering on both of the microphones I bought, even though they were advertised as being in perfect condition. And the mounting accessories for other Neumann remote capsules (KM 100 series) don't fit the KMF 4.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

df

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Out of curiosity I bought two of these microphones on eBay during the past year. I have yet to try them, but I know another engineer who used to use them, and thought well of them at the time (he now uses Schoeps instead).

Do keep in mind that this is a completely orphaned model. No model-specific repair parts, accessories or replacement capsules are available from Neumann any more. The Lemo connectors needed resoldering on both of the microphones I bought, even though they were advertised as being in perfect condition. And the mounting accessories for other Neumann remote capsules (KM 100 series) don't fit the KMF 4.

--best regards

I just bought a pair of these mic's... they look fantastic, but I haven't used them yet.  Do you know of any mounting accessories that will fit the kmf's?

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
> Do you know of any mounting accessories that will fit the kmf's?

The mechanical accessories for the Schoeps CCM series (or for Colette capsules on active cables), such as the SGC or SGCM, fit the remote capsules of the KMF 4i. The same Rycote InVision shock mounts that work for the CCM series should also work for the KMF 4i.

It isn't necessary to shock-mount the bodies, as long as the cables and the remote capsules are shock mounted and isolated mechanically. Any stand adapter that fits their 21 mm diameter will be OK.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

df

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
> Do you know of any mounting accessories that will fit the kmf's?

The mechanical accessories for the Schoeps CCM series (or for Colette capsules on active cables), such as the SGC or SGCM, fit the remote capsules of the KMF 4i. The same Rycote InVision shock mounts that work for the CCM series should also work for the KMF 4i.

It isn't necessary to shock-mount the bodies, as long as the cables and the remote capsules are shock mounted and isolated mechanically. Any stand adapter that fits their 21 mm diameter will be OK.


The diameter is actually 17mm according to the manufacturer website specs.  Will those still work?

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
17 mm is the capsule head's own diameter. The "neck"--the place where you would attach a stand adapter or shock mount--is almost exactly the same size as the corresponding part of a Schoeps Colette active cable. See the attached photos--one shows a comparison of a KMF 4 capsule head with the capsule end of a Schoeps KC 10 cable, and the other shows a KMF 4 sitting in a Schoeps TC miniature table stand, with the SGC stand adapter that I mentioned before.

Originally the KMF 4 had a tapered, flexible strain relief at the point where the cable enters the "neck" of the capsule; it's visible in their catalog photos from back then (mid-to-late 1980s).

--best regards
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 08:20:18 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (142)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4154
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Should be able to use Kwon style active bars for these!! 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 10:52:18 AM by jbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

df

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Thanks for all the comments.

I've ordered a couple options; a shapeways mount and one of "It Goes to Eleven" Schoeps bars.  Will see how those work out soon.


I might start another thread, but these capsules (and more so the KM88i) are somewhat fragile and now out of production so no replacement parts.  What environment would you say is too much for these mic's?  Tomorrow I'm recording a show in a small basement of a bar and I'd say the sound pressure levels could get pretty high.  I've found some apps for iOS that measure SPL levels (not sure how accurate) but I would definitately use that before running the mic's.  Anyone ever blown a capsule?

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11

Here's a link to some of the literature

http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=hist_microphones&cid=kmf4i_publications

It says the SPL is 130-140 dB. If it's more than 130 dB you are not going to be able to stand it in the room and will suffer permanent hearing loss. I wouldn't worry about permanently damaging the capsules/diaphragms.
Schoeps MK41 > nBob > PFA || MBHO KA300 > PFA || Sennheiser me40-k2u || ADK S51 || Joly Mod Oktava MK012
Aerco MP2 || Grace Lunatec V2 || RAD MS2 || nBox Platinum
Tascam DR701d || PMD620

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City

"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
The maximum SPL of almost every condenser microphone is determined by the overload point of its electronics. Practically speaking, capsules are never damaged by sound pressure alone. The diaphragm in a condenser microphone is held under tension, and hardly moves even when incoming sounds are very loud.

The KM 88's capsules were a special case because their membranes were made of ultra-thin nickel foil, which is both physically fragile and electrically conductive. If someone (or something, such as strong wind) actively blows one of the DC-polarized membranes into contact with the backplate, electrical arcing is liable to occur, which can perforate that diaphragm at the points of contact. Partly for this reason, the polarization voltage for this type of capsule was held to 40 V rather than the more usual 60.

The KMF 4 on the other hand used a Mylar membrane with its non-sputtered side facing the backplate, so it's not vulnerable to arcing and perforation should it be forced against the backplate. Instead, it's just vulnerable to the "usual suspects" for all condenser microphones: dust, liquid spills, condensation from the breath of people who sing or speak directly into the microphone without a screen, and especially the gunk in such people's breath if they smoke (or if they record right after eating without brushing their teeth first).

You also have to watch the Lemo connectors in these mikes--they can become intermittent, and then they need to be resoldered.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:51:35 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline MakersMarc

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2686
  • Gender: Male
  • 😈
I know this thread is old, but I just pulled down several GD shows using kmf4 and they sound really good fob.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers. Hi Fi Goodwill style.

Offline Dillon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Male
I know this thread is old, but I just pulled down several GD shows using kmf4 and they sound really good fob.
https://soundcloud.com/dfrieslivesoundandvideo/sets/los-lobos-72316-verizon-wireless-amphitheatre-alpharetta-ga

I just transferred/uploaded this one today.

Neumann KMF4i > SD 744T

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.151 seconds with 40 queries.
© 2002-2019 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF