Topic: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB

[rigpimp]

I have been offered a Schoeps VMS 02IB as part of a package deal and wanted to know if there is a secondary market for this box still.  I don't want to sink money into a pricey MS rig if I cannot offload the parts that I do not want.

[perks]

Just throwing out my guestimate from watching these in the YS. I'm thinking a VMS could sell to someone interested in running a genuine Schoeps pre for around $500-$600. But with all the options available today not everybody is looking for a stand alone pre anymore.

[noahbickart]

Not much, a least for this Schoeps m/s taper.

The existence of the PFA and the ease of M/S conversion either live (on a modern all in one pre/ad) or in post means that there are smaller solutions to get m/s actives to a preamp.

Chris King was nice enough to lend me his for a while. It's cool looking, but my old littlebox does the same thing, fits my bag better, has longer battery life, and I don't think I hear any sonic improvement. 

I take all of this back. I was wrong. I ended up with a kcy only VMS, and think it's just wonderful.

[yug du nord]

I never ran M/S with one, but I ran one for a couple of years with 41's and absolutely dug it.  Sounded great IMO. 
They seem to sit in the YS for a while these days it seems...  and sell for much less than they use to.
Anywhere from $400-$700 has been the "going rate" for the last few in the YS I think.  But they sit for a while.

If you have a KCY cable, and can get it for a fair price....  go for it!  You don't need to strictly run M/S with it.
M/S is more easily flexible in post anyways.

But yeah...  if it breaks, call Vark Audio and hopefully they can help. 

[H₂O]

I am assuming this is for the rig in France that's been up for a while - The VMS looks older (flat black and not nextel grey) - regardless:


VMS 02ib ~ $500
KCY5i      ~$500
MK4         ~$400
MK8 (wide vents) ~$750
Rycote setup  ~$200


So at the current price of 1500 euros it's not to bad deal if your looking to pick up the mk8.

The VMS is also not very popular right now so it may take longer to sell even at $500


FWIW - I don't give tips on these foreign deals anymore as there hasn't been much interest and when there is it causes to much pressure on the sellers.

[fanofjam]

...and I don't think I hear any sonic improvement.

After owning three littleboxes one tinybox and many VMS's, I strongly disagree with this statement.  VMSs are still great preamps, but yes their value has decreased of late...not the least of which is the completely false information spread on taperssection that they can't be repaired.

Vark Audio works on them and does a great job.  The older smaller VMS preamps have three boards and the vast majority of the components on the boards are readily replaceable.  The major components that I know of that aren't replaceable are the front switches on the older small VMS preamps and the boards themselves.  But most repairs consist of replacement of readily available electronic parts...diodes, capacitors, transistors, etc. 

I believe that the VMS5U is still sold by Schoeps so parts availability on that one should not be an issue.

[noahbickart]

...and I don't think I hear any sonic improvement.

After owning three littleboxes one tinybox and many VMS's, I strongly disagree with this statement.

How can you disagree with a statement about what I think I hear?

I suspect you are really saying that you think you hear a difference between the littlebox and the schoeps. Fair enough. But I'm suspicious.

I'm game. Perhaps in the same vein as the mixpre6 vs. sx-r4 comp, we should do a mk22> kcy > littlebox vs. vms double blind comp. Dsatz is on the record challenging the widespread notion that different solid state preamps make much if any difference with Schoeps capsules. Then again the mixpre6 vs. sx-r4 did sound somewhat different.

[jbell]

Just thought I'd add some to the conversation!!  I ran a VMS 5U for a few years into a Sony PCM D100.  It sounds very different than running my mics directly into the Sound devices Mixpre-6.  I don't prefer one over the other, but different flavors for sure.  I also ran a Littlebox and Tinybox for a long time I was an early adopter and had one of the first KCY Littlebox preamps.  I actually liked the Tinybox sound better and eventually sold of my Littlebox.  I ran the same Schoeps mic setup for years into a lot of preamps to list a few VMS02ib, EAA PSP2, Aeta PSP3, Aerco MP-2, Grace V2, and Grace V3 ACM.  All pres seemed to influence the sound IMO and really depends on your preference as to what a person will enjoy listening to.  Just my 2 cents.   

[fanofjam]

All pres seemed to influence the sound IMO ...

Of course they do!  The notion that all solid state preamps sound the same is ridiculous.  If one's ears are telling them otherwise, something else is at stake, like perhaps confirmation bias.

[fanofjam]

Dsatz is on the record challenging the widespread notion that different solid state preamps make much if any difference with Schoeps capsules.

If you're going to attribute such a statement to DSatz, I recommend quoting him rather than paraphrasing.  I strongly suspect you've misrepresented whatever he said, because your statement, on its own seems ridiculous to me.

[hi and lo]

Dsatz is on the record challenging the widespread notion that different solid state preamps make much if any difference with Schoeps capsules.

If you're going to attribute such a statement to DSatz, I recommend quoting him rather than paraphrasing.  I strongly suspect you've misrepresented whatever he said, because your statement, on its own seems ridiculous to me.

I can't disagree that quotes are better, but it's actually pretty much spot on (minus the last three words because it applies to all capsules).

The purpose of a preamp is to amplify the signal at all frequencies equally. Can a preamp be designed to flavor the sound? Absolutely and there are certainly differences, but in general that is not their designed purpose. The frequency response should be ruler flat from 20Hz - 20kHz and in the age of digital EQ tools and excellent all-in-one recorders I have no idea why anyone would want to rely on a piece of hardware downstream of the capsule to flavor the sound. Well, other than for fun. I've owned and run pretty much every preamp under the sun, but I'm usually happiest running straight into all-in-one because it's one less point of failure.

[fanofjam]

Dsatz is on the record challenging the widespread notion that different solid state preamps make much if any difference with Schoeps capsules.

If you're going to attribute such a statement to DSatz, I recommend quoting him rather than paraphrasing.  I strongly suspect you've misrepresented whatever he said, because your statement, on its own seems ridiculous to me.

I can't disagree that quotes are better, but it's actually pretty much spot on (minus the last three words because it applies to all capsules).

The purpose of a preamp is to amplify the signal at all frequencies equally. Can a preamp be designed to flavor the sound? Absolutely and there are certainly differences, but in general that is not their designed purpose. The frequency response should be ruler flat from 20Hz - 20kHz and in the age of digital EQ tools and excellent all-in-one recorders I have no idea why anyone would want to rely on a piece of hardware downstream of the capsule to flavor the sound. Well, other than for fun. I've owned and run pretty much every preamp under the sun, but I'm usually happiest running straight into all-in-one because it's one less point of failure.

But all preamps don't amplify the signal at all frequencies equally.  You yourself have in the past stated How some preamps cause the low end to muddy up.  Once the low end breaks up even a little bit, no back end can restore it.

This doesn't regard that preamps are also responsible for maintaining the sonic qualities of the sound to maintain transparency...eg the timbres, soundstage, etc.

That said I'd like to read the details behind the logic that suggests that a lower end preamp is just as good as the higher end...since that's what seemed to spark this debate.

[noahbickart]

But all preamps don't amplify the signal at all frequencies equally.

Microphone preamps used for recording music, like the ones we are discussing in this thread, are all essentially flat in their frequency response. if you want to cut or boost frequencies, wouldn't you use an EQ in post?

But enough talk, who's got schoeps caps and a preamp they'd like to do a blind test with? I'll provide the kcy, extension cables and a mixpre6!

[fanofjam]

But enough talk, who's got schoeps caps and a preamp they'd like to do a blind test with? I'll provide the kcy, extension cables and a mixpre6!

Can't you comp your littlebox against your mixpre-6?

[noahbickart]

But enough talk, who's got schoeps caps and a preamp they'd like to do a blind test with? I'll provide the kcy, extension cables and a mixpre6!

Can't you comp your littlebox against your mixpre-6?

Not without multiple pairs of the same capsule. I suppose I could do mono comparisons.