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Author Topic: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline ycoop

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Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« on: March 19, 2018, 12:56:39 AM »
This past weekend I recorded a DJ set using both the 1/4" inputs with a direct feed from the turntable on my DR-40 as well as the internal mics. During some portions of the set the direct feed has this horribly frustrating crunching sound while the audience feed doesn't have this sound (see linked attachments). While it sounds like clipping, the waveform and the levels on the DR-40 don't know any evidence of clipping. I've thought about just using the internals for those portions, but it just doesn't sound right. I've also tried using the noise reduction function on Audacity, but haven't found it to be effective.

Anyone have an ideas about what might cause this and what I might be able to do about it using free audio editing tools (on Windows)?

Thanks!

Direct feed:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fw4SglW5Ffn_KlD3ZYLWecs9uGhfNtpd/view?usp=sharing

Internal mics:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-A-c137JECiec15VeCIXIFu1UsSrgguh


Offline Gordon

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 07:33:05 AM »
Sounds like brickwalling.
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 07:35:45 AM »
Sounds like brickwalling.

Yup. Overloaded the inputs without actually hitting the maximum levels on the recorder.

Offline ycoop

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 01:45:35 PM »
Overloaded them with what exactly?

Did I break my recorder? Haven’t checked how the inputs are acting at home.

Anything I can do to clean things up?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:51:48 PM by ycoop »

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 02:06:27 PM »
Open it up in your editor and post a screenshot of what the waveform looks like. 
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 10:15:57 PM »
Open it up in your editor and post a screenshot of what the waveform looks like.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gav2R4MGlPUqXwD-rUgJF45elSJpTI3H/view?usp=sharing

The highlighted portion has the sound throughout. The phenomenon is not limited to that portion, it rears its ugly head throughout the recording.

Calmed my own nerves by recording the headphone out from my bass amp and everything seems to be good with the inputs.  :coolguy:

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 11:32:38 PM »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gav2R4MGlPUqXwD-rUgJF45elSJpTI3H/view?usp=sharing

The highlighted portion has the sound throughout. The phenomenon is not limited to that portion, it rears its ugly head throughout the recording.


Can you post an audio file of just that section?

Offline ycoop

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 02:02:01 AM »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gav2R4MGlPUqXwD-rUgJF45elSJpTI3H/view?usp=sharing

The highlighted portion has the sound throughout. The phenomenon is not limited to that portion, it rears its ugly head throughout the recording.


Can you post an audio file of just that section?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vf_mzCpatyr-P44wRp1xAFfGao7pRPcs

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 07:30:46 PM »
That's not just that section. What timestamp on that file should I be listening to?

Offline rumbleseat

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 07:42:54 PM »
I hear distortion in the lowest frequencies only - slight distortion of the "kick drum" and definitely distortion in the "bass guitar" with the lowest notes being worse.

Did you have your EXT IN switch set to MIC when it might have been better to have it set to LINE??

I don't have any ideas for fixing it...
AKG C480B CK61 cards >  Canare L-4E6S with Neutrik EMC > Tascam DR-680 MKII > memories

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 08:01:22 PM »
It doesn't really sound like it's overloading in the loudest bits, though, which is what brickwalling would be. Is it possible there's something ungrounded in your turntable feed? That's what the output from my old turntable sounded like before I replaced it with my new turntable.

Offline rumbleseat

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 10:01:46 PM »
Another thought - You provided MP3 files for listening and downloading.  Did you record directly to MP3 or WAV?  If you have original WAV files and can post a small clip from one of those, that might be helpful.  There may be one-sided clipping from DC offset for example...
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 10:46:54 PM »
The sound file is the highlighted portion from the waveform I posted above. The sound is most dramatic starting around 4 minutes in.

It’s definitely possible something was off with the turntable, though the sound is still present even after normalizing and removing DC offset. I recorded as WAV. Link to WAV file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nUIQf8IFkg1cKwAlPVJRLfRty5h4MWcd

Had the recorder set to LINE and the levels set as low as they would go.

Another possibility that I’m now thinking of is that the recorder was connected to the turntable via RCA plugs with 1/4” adaptors, which could have potentially introduced some sort of problem.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:49:21 PM by ycoop »

Offline wforwumbo

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2018, 11:12:11 AM »
Normalizing and filtering out DC offset won’t always fix this “crunching” issue you’re facing.

While it’s certainly possibly I’m inclined to say it’s not the cables, given how this issue is only at one portion, and this only seems to happen when there’s one passage of lots of low frequency info (bass and kick seem to trigger it) during other already somewhat louder passages.

Do you have automatic gain control turned on? It could have raised your levels for you during a quieter passage then not backed them off during this louder portion, causing the limiters to kick in and brickwalling your recording.

On an unrelated note, glad to see you’re getting usage out of my old DR-40! Seems you’re using it more than I did.
2x Schoeps mk21 (matched pair) -> nbob KCY -> Naiant PFA -> Sound Devices Mixpre 6

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sounds like clipping...but it isn't...
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2018, 01:34:54 PM »
It's most prominent starting around 4:00, but I hear that bass distortion all the way through. Does it sound okay playing out through your speakers? Could you maybe try recording out from your amplifier instead of direct from the turntable outs? [EDIT: Actually read the thread from the beginning and realized these were dumb questions under the circumstances...]
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 07:27:21 PM by nulldogmas »

 

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