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Author Topic: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”  (Read 3157 times)

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Offline prepschoolalumniblues

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How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« on: July 30, 2019, 12:19:13 PM »
I’m a new taper and I’m trying to learn as much as possible about different recording configurations so I can try them out for myself. (It’s been so nice to have this forum as a resource!) As I read more details about setups, I’m wondering how tapers estimate measurements like “x feet from the stage.” Do you go off of the seating chart? Having a keen sense of spatial reasoning? If you have a specific approach to this I’d love to learn more.
Mics: Line Audio CM4 (sc); Line Audio OM1 (o); Audio-Technica AT853Rx (c, sc, o); Audio-Technica ATU853 (c, o); Oktava MK-012 (hc, c, o)

Decks: Sound Devices MixPre-3, Marantz PMD661 (Oade warm mod), Marantz PMD620MKII, Marantz PMD-706 (Oade warm and concert mods)

Offline seethreepo

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2019, 12:58:00 PM »
if you want to get crazy precise drop a few gps pins and do the math between the two. Otherwise I think its educated guessing for the most part (in my case for sure) .   
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Offline bobwiely

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2019, 01:11:07 PM »
There is an iOS app that is called “mic tools”
Under the Stereo Mic Tools section select
Recording Angle Calculator.
The bombview screen for stereo mic alignment is amusing but legit... it makes me chuckle 🤷‍♂️
Play with that as you read countless posts / aes papers,
and of course curse your way through lots of trial and error...
[Mic pairs:]
AKG:    C414 B-ULS’s, CK61,
Nakamichi:    CM100, CP1, CP2, CP4
Sonic Studios:   DSM 6
Schoeps:    Bodies: CMC6 (x2pr), Caps: MK2g, MK21, MK4 (x2pr), MK41, & a single MK8

[Pre’s Active’s & A/D’s:]
Carbonetta:   NBOX Platinum [kcy](x2)
Grace:   Lunatec V3(6v)
JK Labs:   DVC (#6 w/actives for ck & mk caps)
Schoeps:   KC5 (x2), KCY 250/5, KCY 250/0, & KS 5 I
Sonosax:   SXM2 (x2)

[Deck’s:]
Sony:  Oade ACM M10
Sound Devices:   722, 744t
Tascam:   DR680 MKII, Oade ACM HDP2, PR10


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Offline Gordon

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2019, 01:39:17 PM »
I rarely list distance from stage.  I do list stand/mic height as that is much easier to estimate.  I'm about 5'11"-6'  with my arm sticking straight up that adds about 18" to that.  So that's roughly 7.5' so easy to estimate the rest.  I generally run 8-8.5 high.
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Offline heathen

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 01:50:11 PM »
OK... First I'll access the secret military spy satellite that's in a geosynchronous orbit over the Midwest. Then, I'll ID the limo by the vanity plate "MR. BIGGG" and get his approximate position. Then, I'll reposition the transmitter dish on the remote truck to 17.32 degrees east, hit WESTAR 4 over the Atlantic, bounce the signal down into the Azores, up to COMSAT 6, beam it back to SATCOM 2 transmitter number 137, and down on the dish on the back of Mr. Big's limo... It's almost too easy.




Just kidding...I eyeball it.  Welcome aboard.
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Offline lsd2525

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 02:11:20 PM »
Some venues (mostly local around here) I'll actually carry a measuring tape. I do a lot of mic+SBD>video camera on the fly matrices so I want to set the mic delay as close as possible. Sometimes I'll "walk it off". I usually guess it within a few feet give or take.
Mics: SKM184's; ADK A51s; AT4041; Line CM3; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
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Offline ideal77dlr

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 02:34:01 PM »
To be honest it comes from practice. I even sometimes make ‘micro adjustments’ in terms of where I’m standing during the first song. Rarely do I get this wrong. It just comes with doing it multiple times. If anything, most tapers are too far back.

If you’re starting out, try going to a big show rather than a small one, simply because there’s more sound around you and it’s louder - and point your mics, A-B style, at the stacks about 15-20 feet away and try to get those metres around -12db.

Do that a couple of times and you’ll develop a feel for what works and what doesn’t.
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Offline prepschoolalumniblues

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2019, 03:52:26 PM »
Thanks everyone!
Mics: Line Audio CM4 (sc); Line Audio OM1 (o); Audio-Technica AT853Rx (c, sc, o); Audio-Technica ATU853 (c, o); Oktava MK-012 (hc, c, o)

Decks: Sound Devices MixPre-3, Marantz PMD661 (Oade warm mod), Marantz PMD620MKII, Marantz PMD-706 (Oade warm and concert mods)

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2019, 04:12:54 PM »
most tapers are too far back.

I agree with this.

It's unfortunately impossible to get the perfect answer to your question. Tapers have different taste. Personally I want to catch so much of the stacks direct sound as possible before the sound starts to bounce around or change tone for whatever reason. So, I'm always pretty close to the stacks. Left, right or center depends on the venue. Other tapers want a more of the natural room sound. They surely prefer to be further back. And it's of course also many other things that will affect your recording. Close your eyes and trust you ears is my recommendation.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2019, 04:43:52 PM »
I have a hard time estimating the distances myself. If there are seats, I will count the rows back and then estimate the width of a single row. The smaller distance is easier to pinpoint. I have also estimated from venue diagrams that are often available on the web in the "technical specifications" section. In the end, I don't worry about it too much, to be honest.

Offline jeenash

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2019, 05:29:41 PM »
For open taping bands you probably won't have much choice. I've found at most taper friendly venues they allow stands only in certain areas. Some spots are better than others.

Offline bobwiely

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2019, 06:01:20 PM »
For open taping bands you probably won't have much choice. I've found at most taper friendly venues they allow stands only in certain areas. Some spots are better than others.
Or walk in @ sound check, set up wherever the fuck you want, dial in your dialiables and then bounce after to go get dinner with the band. Make sure to come back high as duck and make fun of your friends who are sitting in line... 🤦‍♂️

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[Mic pairs:]
AKG:    C414 B-ULS’s, CK61,
Nakamichi:    CM100, CP1, CP2, CP4
Sonic Studios:   DSM 6
Schoeps:    Bodies: CMC6 (x2pr), Caps: MK2g, MK21, MK4 (x2pr), MK41, & a single MK8

[Pre’s Active’s & A/D’s:]
Carbonetta:   NBOX Platinum [kcy](x2)
Grace:   Lunatec V3(6v)
JK Labs:   DVC (#6 w/actives for ck & mk caps)
Schoeps:   KC5 (x2), KCY 250/5, KCY 250/0, & KS 5 I
Sonosax:   SXM2 (x2)

[Deck’s:]
Sony:  Oade ACM M10
Sound Devices:   722, 744t
Tascam:   DR680 MKII, Oade ACM HDP2, PR10


~JustB

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2019, 04:31:19 PM »
Angle estimation- A clenched fist held at arm's length and viewed through one squinted eye covers ~10°.  Calibrate your own fist by comparing multiple fist widths against some known, easily observed angle.  I've learned how much protruding thumb knuckle I need to include in the fist-width measurement to get it very close to 10°, which works out to a tolerance of around +/- 5° for typical PAS angles.   Using this method I found myself estimating the screen width at a movie theater last week to be right about 50 degrees as viewed from my seat during a boring trailer.

Distance estimation- Calibrate your stride-length in a similar manner to walk off distances pretty accurately.  When estimating relatively close distances from my seat, I'll sometimes imagine how many "me's" laying on the floor head to foot it would take to span the distance.  Alternately, look for some item or feature of a known dimension, say 10' to 20' long and and mentally overlay multiples of that.
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Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2019, 05:22:07 PM »
Real answer:  guess-timate...

You could pace it off it its a venue with no seating - each step is about 30 inches.

Or count the seated rows and multiply by 3ft. 

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Offline morst

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Re: How do you estimate recording location “coordinates?”
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2019, 05:47:02 PM »
Record the SBD on the same clock, then count samples, divide by sample rate, and multiply the time by the speed of sound to find the distance.


Or usa a laser?
hey now!

 

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