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Author Topic: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series  (Read 1474 times)

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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 09:34:12 PM »
for sure, if anything youd think the ccm would be made obsolete by this, not the cmr
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 09:49:57 PM »
Schoeps copying b9audio or dpa???  I only say this as my b9audio team thread got hyjacked by butt hurt schoeps fans (which I'm a 20year member) knocking b9 products ( which wasn't the place or time)  so I'd figure I would get my own dig in

I assume you're referring to my comments there. I'm not "butt hurt," nor was I "knocking" a product with which I have no first hand experience. So I'm sorry if I came off that way or offended you. :cheers:

I was simply pointing out that b9audio was imitating the look of Schoeps products in a way I find distasteful, and which reminds me of Behringer's blatant copies of Mackie and other gear.

The cmc1 might serve a similar purpose as the DPA small body, in the same way their V4u serves the same purpose as a Neumann tlm 103- but nobody would mistake either of those Schoeps products for its competitor. The b9audio microphones seem to be designed to be mistaken for Schoeps.  :smash:

I just think it's ultimately much cooler to make your new cool products look unique, (and I much prefer Phish to JRAD). And the CMC1 looks exactly as you would expect from Schoeps. I bet it works well too.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:53:30 PM by noahbickart »
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline DSatz

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 10:23:00 PM »
jerryfreak, a lot depends on what options interest a person. For me, my first priority was interchangeable capsules with different directional patterns so that I could adapt my recording techniques to different venues and aesthetic goals. Then and only then, I started using active accessories such as Colette extension cables, and later, extension tubes as well (RC -- and RCY --). They allow for less visually obtrusive setups, but apart from that they don't really create whole new possibilities in the way that different capsules can do.

The immediate forerunner of the Colette series was a small series of microphones ("CMMT") that Schoeps made for the French state-run (at the time) radio network. It was arranged with the capsule attached permanently to the FET impedance converter. This could be attached to the output stage/body either directly or via an extension cable, which was simply a passive cable. This arrangement is mentioned as "prior art" in the Schoeps/Wuttke patent for the Colette system. The CMMT series never sold very widely, nor did it diversify in the way that the Colette system has (at first there were only seven capsule types; now there are about 20, for example). If there had been alternate capsule types for the CMMT, each one would have needed its own, built-in FET impedance converter circuit, making it more costly and inefficient to produce and to buy than is really necessary.

The way Schoeps arranged the Colette system, you pay only for the features that you actually use. Nothing about Colette capsules, for example, makes them particularly more expensive on account of their ability to work with (or without) active accessories. The same is true of CMC amplifiers (or OK, maybe a dollar extra for the concentric socket connector where either a capsule or an active accessory can be attached).

--best regards
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:40:21 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline yug du nord

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 10:40:17 PM »
CCM is smaller than CMC1 (and CCM L for that matter) if that is of consideration.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline heathen

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 10:59:00 PM »
I was simply pointing out that b9audio was imitating the look of Schoeps products in a way I find distasteful, and which reminds me of Behringer's blatant copies of Mackie and other gear.

Most people would take that as knocking the product.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
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Offline DSatz

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 11:01:12 PM »
yug du, you're right, of course, that using a CMC 1 without a Colette cable would be longer than the CCM, but that's not the only alternative. A CCM-L microphone is slightly longer than the equivalent capsule on a Colette cable, if you measure from the point where a miniature stand adapter would hold each of them.

With apologies for the parallax and motion blur, below is an CCM 41 VL (on the left), next to the corresponding capsule (MK 41 V) on a Colette cable. I matched up the "mounting points" for the two as closely as I could.

--best regards
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 11:16:06 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline H₂O

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2019, 11:52:11 AM »
One thing I have noticed is that the CMC1 doesn't have a smaller diameter at the XLR side like newer CMC bodies.  This would require a cable between the CMC1 and an XLR socket such as on a pre-amp.
Dsatz - Is there a reason Schoeps omitted this reduced diameter?
It would have been nice if you could plug directly into a preamp and use active cables to extend the CMC1 to a capsule.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2019, 12:00:08 PM »
The immediate forerunner of the Colette series was a small series of microphones ("CMMT") that Schoeps made for the French state-run (at the time) radio network. It was arranged with the capsule attached permanently to the FET impedance converter. This could be attached to the output stage/body either directly or via an extension cable, which was simply a passive cable. This arrangement is mentioned as "prior art" in the Schoeps/Wuttke patent for the Colette system. The CMMT series never sold very widely, nor did it diversify in the way that the Colette system has (at first there were only seven capsule types; now there are about 20, for example). If there had been alternate capsule types for the CMMT, each one would have needed its own, built-in FET impedance converter circuit, making it more costly and inefficient to produce and to buy than is really necessary.
Note that only the Prototype CMMT's had the capsule in the same housing as the FET.  The production CMMT's (both the F and AF series) have removable capsules that are seperate from the upper FET stage of the body.  The FET Stage was detachable from the impedance convertor stage which used 3 transistors instead of a FET to transistor stage that is in the CMC3/5/6.


Schoeps made about 950 CMMT 30 F's and about 200 CMMT 30 AF's - In my profile pic you can see the 4 CMMT 30 AF's that I own - the FET stage is at the top the impedance converter is at the bottom.

There is a picture(s) of the CMMT 30 prototypes (showing the capsule with built in FET) in a French Audio magazine from Spring of 1965.  I have seen the picture(s) (low quality) once on some French Pro-Audio forum but have been unable to find the forum or pictures since.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 12:04:24 PM by H₂O »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2019, 03:55:27 PM »
H2O, thank you for the information about the CMMT series. It's a series that I know very little about, and hope to find out more.

Also, I agree with you completely about the reduced diameter around the XLR connector. That feature was introduced some years after the CMC series itself was introduced; the earliest Colette amplifiers didn't have it.

I had in fact mentioned this in one discussion prior to the product announcement, but we were talking about a whole bunch of things all at the same time and I let it fall into the cracks. I'll be speaking with those folks again soon, so I'll make sure to ask.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline DSatz

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2019, 11:22:13 AM »
H2, just to confirm what you noted: The CMC 1's housing tube isn't tapered at the connector end the way the CMC 3's through 6's were/are. I was told that it would have forced them to lengthen the amplifier--and of course the smallest possible/practical size was the primary goal for this product.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2019, 05:31:55 AM »
I was speaking with bernhard about the wide range of phantom voltage in the specs, and asked if there was any difference between powering at 30V or 52V, he said it would be 131dB max spl at 30V vs 135@48-52V (and that there would be no reason to attempt to power at 52V on purpose and risk over voltage, the 52V exists as a consequence of 48V + 10% allowance). many preamps dip ive seen voltages under 30V on P48 with some mics

in any case, if your preamp supports P12, unless it can provide a full 48V on P48, it might be just as well to run it P12 (which is also 131dB max SPL, same as a CMC6), maybe extend your runtime
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2019, 04:22:06 PM »
These are cool, but for the $1700 a pair you could instead get a babynbox and actives for $1k. Or a PFA and nbobs for a p48 recorder for $700-800.
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2019, 06:26:23 PM »
These are cool, but for the $1700 a pair you could instead get a babynbox and actives for $1k. Or a PFA and nbobs for a p48 recorder for $700-800.

or CMRs for around $1K

some people just like OEM gear, and none of the options listed above can drive 400m of balanced cable, maybe the PFAs can
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2019, 05:19:30 PM »
I can imagine people here who currently use the CMC6 might want to switch to the CMC1 for a more compact overall package, but I wonder if anyone around here who currently doesn't run a Schoeps body will be enticed to run the CMC1 because it's so much smaller than the CMC6.  Anyone?

Interesting but no real value for the bodyless folks. That’s big bux
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: new Schoeps CMC 1 amplifier for the Colette series
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2019, 08:49:42 PM »
I can imagine people here who currently use the CMC6 might want to switch to the CMC1 for a more compact overall package, but I wonder if anyone around here who currently doesn't run a Schoeps body will be enticed to run the CMC1 because it's so much smaller than the CMC6.  Anyone?

Interesting but no real value for the bodyless folks. That’s big bux


assuming there is no significant audible difference between the CMC6 and CMC1 (or CMC5 for that matter... ive seen some mic snobs say they prefer CMC5s but never in our application...), it seems there has never been a real comp done between the various powering options (CMC6/5/1 all same probably) vs VMS vs baby Nbox vs CMR vs IPA vs IFA.

would be worthwhile to hear if there is *any* audible difference between the various options for our purposes (powering only, flavors of gain stages aside)

people have discussed the advantages of 60V capsule powering vs 40-48V from some solutions, but other than slight noise/sensitivity difference (which should be well below room noise in our application), any differences discussed seem to be anecdotal at best to date
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