Topic: 32Bit Float recording - The Technical view

[Ozpeter]

From that manual quote, their advice is to use the 1/4" input on the H4essential for line level signals from a soundboard.  So you would probably need two pairs of leads in your kit.  One pair would be XLR to 1/4" TRS for when the soundboard was outputting from XLR.  The other pair would be 1/4" to 1/4" TRS for when the soundboard was outputting from 1/4". 

[Gutbucket]

If line-input via TRS is capable of handling an input level of up to +24dBu, it should handle a patch from the soundboard just fine.  I Just checked the on-line manual and found the note below-

"NOTE
To make handling the levels of input signals easy, the H4essential sets input levels according to the types of plugs connected to the input jacks.
• When connecting mic-level devices, use XLR plugs.
• When connecting line-level devices, use TRS plugs."

Ok, just to make sure I am understanding it...when I am using my mics or connecting to a soundboard/mixer that has an XLR output, use the XLR inputs on the Zoom. If I am connecting to soundboard/mixer with a 1/4" connection, I should be using the "Line In" input? So using a 3.5 MM input with a dual splitter and 1/4" adapters to the soundboard should work? No attenuator needed because it's 32 bit float?

What Morst and Ozpeter said.

Think of it this way.. You won't decide which input on the recorder to use based on the output connector on the microphone, soundboard, preamp, or whatever else you are recording.  You will instead choose which input to use based on the signal level produced by what you are plugging in.

Microphones get plugged into the XLR input on the recorder, regardless of what output connector the microphone actually features, because they will all produce a lower "mic level" output.  Sources that produce a higher level of output, such as a patch from the mixer, soundboard, or the output from an external preamp go into the TRS input, regardless of their output connector. That means you will need to use adapters to convert from XLR to TRS and vice versa whenever necessary, or use dedicated cables with the different appropriate connectors installed on either end. 

This is all about selecting the appropriate recorder inputs based on the output level of whatever you are plugging into it, and has nothing to do with the recorder featuring a 32-bit floating point recording format or not.

[Dan33185]

If line-input via TRS is capable of handling an input level of up to +24dBu, it should handle a patch from the soundboard just fine.  I Just checked the on-line manual and found the note below-

"NOTE
To make handling the levels of input signals easy, the H4essential sets input levels according to the types of plugs connected to the input jacks.
• When connecting mic-level devices, use XLR plugs.
• When connecting line-level devices, use TRS plugs."

Ok, just to make sure I am understanding it...when I am using my mics or connecting to a soundboard/mixer that has an XLR output, use the XLR inputs on the Zoom. If I am connecting to soundboard/mixer with a 1/4" connection, I should be using the "Line In" input? So using a 3.5 MM input with a dual splitter and 1/4" adapters to the soundboard should work? No attenuator needed because it's 32 bit float?

What Morst and Ozpeter said.

Think of it this way.. You won't decide which input on the recorder to use based on the output connector on the microphone, soundboard, preamp, or whatever else you are recording.  You will instead choose which input to use based on the signal level produced by what you are plugging in.

Microphones get plugged into the XLR input on the recorder, regardless of what output connector the microphone actually features, because they will all produce a lower "mic level" output.  Sources that produce a higher level of output, such as a patch from the mixer, soundboard, or the output from an external preamp go into the TRS input, regardless of their output connector. That means you will need to use adapters to convert from XLR to TRS and vice versa whenever necessary, or use dedicated cables with the different appropriate connectors installed on either end. 

This is all about selecting the appropriate recorder inputs based on the output level of whatever you are plugging into it, and has nothing to do with the recorder featuring a 32-bit floating point recording format or not.

I feel like an idiot, but up until a couple days ago I didn't realize there was another input inside the XLR input. I ended up buying 2 of these cables specifically for soundboard/mixer outputs

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NZ2NVRV/

[Ozpeter]

I suspect the best recording engineers all started as idiots... 

[Gutbucket]

I didn't realize there was another input inside the XLR input.

FYI- That style of combo TRS/XLR jack is common on a lot of equipment, and usually both inputs are connected to the same circuit (the two inputs are wired in parallel), so that you can use cables terminated with either connector type.

This particular implementation where the TRS jack in the center feeds an entirely different circuit (line-in) than the XLR jack (mic-in) is more unusual, but is common to some Zoom recorders.  I suppose they did it that way to eliminate the need to implement a mic-in/line-in switch.  Its not that way on all Zoom recorders though.  For example, the first generation F8 uses that scheme, while the later F8N and F8N-PRO models have the two inputs wired in parallel, along with an added menu switch to choose mic or line input.

[Ozpeter]

The new Zoom H1 XLR also adopts the switch approach, FWIW (with separate switches for the two main inputs).

[morst]

I suspect the best recording engineers all started as idiots... 

Yah, if you think you know everything, it's gonna be hard to learn anything new.
A first step to learning is to realize you need to know an answer!
A nice thing about learning a new subject is that you can make rapid progress.
After 40+ years of doing this, I'm lucky if I can learn one thing per gig without making a mistake to get the knowledge!! "Darn it I wanted to make a recording, and all I got was this valuable lesson!"

[Gone Fishin']

Someone has to say it ... Read the manual, but these days it seems to take more than that
In my heavy photograph days, no expensive gear was bought without first reading the "Magic Lantern Guide", sort of a third-party users,' manual.




I remember thinking that everything in life should have such a guide.... Cars, spouses, children, bosses, wardrobe....



And thanks, all, for the good info on combi-XLRs!

[bonghitwillie]

when i would get sbd feeds, if i got a dedicated output where the level could be controlled, i would ask for the level to be at 50%. it might be too low, but you cant really dick back and forth asking little higher, little lower. better lower than clipped. plus you never really know what the level is until the show is in progress. usually when you get the feed pre recorded music is being played. plus it might start out lower and gradually get louder.

[Dan33185]

I posed a question on someone's YouTube review of the Zoom H4Essential, and am even more confused. In theory, 32-Bit Float shouldn't ever clip, why would this be a concern then? If I still need to worry about clipping, wouldn't I be just as well off with a cheaper 24/16 bit recorder?

[grawk]

First, if you overload the analog input on any recorder, you’re going to get clipping regardless of the number of bits for the sample rate or anything else. The max input level is the max input level.

Second the h series is already cheap. Anything cheaper is likely to be worse.

[Dan33185]

So 32-Bit Float is basically snake oil.

[grawk]

No but it’s a solution to a problem you’re not having right now. And it’s not magic. The quality of the device still matters. Not just the format it stores audio in.

[checht]

^ Would be cool if they included an internal function that would both normalize the 32bit float file AND produce a 24bit file from that on the recorder itself, streamlining post work where desirable.  Sound Devices should be able to do that easily since the MixPre IIs already have the capability of supporting internal mixdown to a new file, I believe.

Gut, you're gonna have to demonstrate that there is substantial benefit from doing the processing on the unit versus a DAW. That touchscreen is minuscule, even compared with a laptop monitor. And control bandwidth on the mp-x is again minuscule compared to a kbd and mouse.

Why would I want to do those things on the recorder?

[Ozpeter]

Onboard processing can suit some scenarios depending on many factors.  Can be handy, and in certain video related scenarios when used with simple video editing systems it could be essential.  It doesn't need a sophisticated display.  All you are doing is making simple menu choices. Sample rate, tick the one required, normalise yes or no.   It works fine on my Zoom M2 mic with its small display and processing is fast.  You can do it in the car on the way home from the gig.  Assuming someone else is driving of course...