Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Another getting back into taping thread!  (Read 3092 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline seththedude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Another getting back into taping thread!
« on: October 23, 2019, 01:13:00 PM »
Howdy all,

First off, thanks for the wisdom. Have been lurking for a little while to try to get up to speed. Here's the story.

I used to tape with a minidisc in the early aughts. Mainly taper friendly bands; SCI, String Summit, YMSB (RIP Jeff), Umph McGee, bands throughout the PacNW in various taper friendly venues. Generally just patching into other folks rigs or the SBD. Gave it up to hang out more as taping sections were strong and I could generally find recording after the fact on LMA, etree, etc. Fast forward to now. Taping sections are shrinking rapidly. No recordings for the last few shows I've seen, Infamous Stringdusters Oregon run in January, Umph, Del McCoury, etc. Nothing has even popped up from SCI recent 3-night run at the Cuthbert in Eugene. I only saw 2 tapers through the weekend of this run and recordings have yet to surface. That was the kicker to my desire to get back into taping.

I've been reading threads and doing some research and have decided to invest in a small rig to start taping again.

I am looking for a full basic versatile rig for a variety of purposes:
-Taping at open taping shows of various sizes. Outdoor venues up to about 5,000 (similar to the Cuthbert in Eugene), mid-size theaters (Crystal Ballroom in Portland, McDonald in Eugene, Rogue in Grants Pass, OR, Hi-Fi/Sessions), and local breweries throughout Oregon. I probably would not mic at larger shows like Phish but might patch in.
-Would like a recorder with onboard mics to record band practice and discussion forums. Quality not super important but acceptable.
-Mics that I could also use in a home studio recording local bands. Generally acoustic groups like bluegrass and americana type. Leaning towards Cardioid patterns.
-Not planning on stealth for now.

I have a few basic mics that I have been using for home studio recording. Both dynamic SM57, SM58, Audix, Senn, etc. And condenser MXL 990/991. Have used some AT2020 and similar as well. I am have been looking to pick up a few more condensers for recording anyways. I was already considering a stereo pair so getting some that I can use for taping as well would be great.

This is what my research has been leading me to:
Recorders: Tascam DR-100MKIII, Tascam DR-40x. (I have had good experience with Tascam equipment. Seems Tascam has the best onboard preamps as well. Would like something with phantom power to power the mics.)
Mics: AT2021, Rode M5, sE7, there is currently a set of AT-ATM450 for sale used locally for $325 (I have used AT mics and liked them in the past. I have found them to have a good bang for your buck. Never used Rode or sE.)

I have listened to a variety of recordings with mics plugged into and powered by the same unit and the results are generally acceptable. Unless a separate battery box would make more sense, I am trying to keep it simple with just a recorder and mics. I would have no problem upgrading in the future if necessary. I do have various stands and many XLR cables so would proabbly just need to purchase recorder and mics.

Budget is $500-600 for now. I am leaning towards the Tascam DR-100MKIII and AT2021 mics. This could be had new for about $500. Would it make more sense to get a Tascam DR-40x and put the $$ towards better mics (for example Rode NT5, maybe used 4041 if I can find them) ? Not in a super rush to buy anything but there are some NYE shows I might tape locally and several bands coming through in January I would like to tape.

Cheers :cheers: and thanks for any thoughts or advise.
Sethro in Southern Oregon. Mandolin Maniac and Bluegrass Lover

AT4041 > Tascam DR-40x

Offline Melanie

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 529
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 08:02:54 PM »
Melanie and I bought the dr 100 mark3 after using a dr40 for a couple of years. I would spend the extra cash on the 100, gain control is much more user friendly, nicer machine, slightly bigger footprint. Bob

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 08:37:58 PM »
You should add the Line Audio CM4 (or CM3 if you can find them) to your list of mics to consider. They (Line Audio in general and the CM3 specifically) punch WAY above their price.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline audBall

  • Trade Count: (36)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • Posts: 6128
  • Gender: Male
  • Stella (World Rally) Blue
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 10:32:32 PM »
This might free up more room on the mic end:

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192365.0

Offline relefunt

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • *
  • Posts: 203
  • Gender: Male
  • kindfulness
    • Milwaukee Taper
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 10:58:01 PM »
I am going to strongly support Heathen's suggestion to look at the Line CM4 mic. They have an incredibly high value-for-dollar ratio (about $120 each) and are definitely good enough for open taping and also they are tiny -- about the size of a traditional XLR plug. Very versatile. If I were only going to have one setup that didn't involve active cables i would go with 2 Line CM4 + either Tascam DR-100mkIII or the Sound Devices MixPre3.

Have fun. It does seem like there are fewer tapers out there and it does seem like there is a much more hostile approach from my local beer-selling venues even when an artist is reluctantly allowing taping (like Robyn Hitchcock) or completely pro-taper like Mike Watt.
Large: AKG c414xls.
Smol: Beyerdynamic MC930, Line Audio CM3 and OM1.
Sneaky Smol: Church CA11+14, Audiotechnica AT853.
Pre: Shure FP24, CA9200.
Recorder: Sound Devices MixPre6, Roland R44 and R05, Sony M10.
my local taping blog: milwaukeetaper.com

Offline seththedude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 05:09:04 PM »
Melanie and I bought the dr 100 mark3 after using a dr40 for a couple of years. I would spend the extra cash on the 100, gain control is much more user friendly, nicer machine, slightly bigger footprint. Bob

Thanks for the advice on the benefits of the DR-100 vs DR-40.

You should add the Line Audio CM4 (or CM3 if you can find them) to your list of mics to consider. They (Line Audio in general and the CM3 specifically) punch WAY above their price.

I am going to strongly support Heathen's suggestion to look at the Line CM4 mic. They have an incredibly high value-for-dollar ratio (about $120 each) and are definitely good enough for open taping and also they are tiny -- about the size of a traditional XLR plug. Very versatile. If I were only going to have one setup that didn't involve active cables i would go with 2 Line CM4 + either Tascam DR-100mkIII or the Sound Devices MixPre3.

Have fun. It does seem like there are fewer tapers out there and it does seem like there is a much more hostile approach from my local beer-selling venues even when an artist is reluctantly allowing taping (like Robyn Hitchcock) or completely pro-taper like Mike Watt.

I'll check out the Line Audio stuff. Any experience using them for recording acoustic instruments in a studio setting?

Definitely fewer tapers at shows you would expect them at in these parts. Not anticipating running into many problems at the local spots. We shall see.

This might free up more room on the mic end:

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192365.0

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll keep and eye on the yard sale.
Sethro in Southern Oregon. Mandolin Maniac and Bluegrass Lover

AT4041 > Tascam DR-40x

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 09:59:48 PM »
You should add the Line Audio CM4 (or CM3 if you can find them) to your list of mics to consider. They (Line Audio in general and the CM3 specifically) punch WAY above their price.

I am going to strongly support Heathen's suggestion to look at the Line CM4 mic. They have an incredibly high value-for-dollar ratio (about $120 each) and are definitely good enough for open taping and also they are tiny -- about the size of a traditional XLR plug. Very versatile. If I were only going to have one setup that didn't involve active cables i would go with 2 Line CM4 + either Tascam DR-100mkIII or the Sound Devices MixPre3.

Have fun. It does seem like there are fewer tapers out there and it does seem like there is a much more hostile approach from my local beer-selling venues even when an artist is reluctantly allowing taping (like Robyn Hitchcock) or completely pro-taper like Mike Watt.

I'll check out the Line Audio stuff. Any experience using them for recording acoustic instruments in a studio setting?

This was recorded with just a pair of CM3s into a SD 702 (credit to Voltronic for the link): https://douglaswhates.com/projects/opalinska-and-whates/
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline anodyne33

  • You'll have that
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 14453
  • Gender: Male
  • All my life there's been the magnets.
    • Lucky
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2019, 10:07:58 AM »
Last year I saw a band that made me get back in. audBall (hi Horus!  :guitarist:) had a DR-70d for sale so I snagged that and went. I still had my AKGs so no worries there. If it were me I'd pick up whatever deck you want and throw whatever mics you have around up and leave that part of the equation to solve itself later. I like my 390s just fine, but I don't have any problem throwing up a pair of 57s or 58s for something I want to get.
Pockets full of nickels and nothing left to eat, and I'm stuck behind a semi on Soniat Street.

Offline prepschoolalumniblues

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Scents and subtle sounds
    • Phish.net Profile
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2019, 11:42:30 AM »
I am going to strongly support Heathen's suggestion to look at the Line CM4 mic. They have an incredibly high value-for-dollar ratio (about $120 each) and are definitely good enough for open taping and also they are tiny -- about the size of a traditional XLR plug. Very versatile. If I were only going to have one setup that didn't involve active cables i would go with 2 Line CM4 + either Tascam DR-100mkIII or the Sound Devices MixPre3.

Have you tried the CM4 from the tapers section at a big amplified show? I continue to be curious about these mics (I've read much of the Team Line Audio thread) and would love to hear your perspective. I just picked up a used MixPre-3 and could definitely see myself using this pairing as a simple go-to setup.

Offline Twenty8

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • Union Ironworker
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2019, 02:50:53 PM »
Tascam dr100mkiii currently in the yard sale
Open ~ Beyerdynamic MC930 and 950 : Line Audio CM3/OM1 :
Closed ~ AT831b/853 (c,sc,o) : Shure Beta98/s
Pres ~ 2x Oade mod UA-5 (W+, ACM+), Sound Pro bboxes
Decks ~ DR680mkII, DR2d
Also ~ AT3031 : Berliner CM33 : Busman BSC1/K1-4 : Sennheiser e614

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4657
  • high desert for life
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2019, 03:01:22 PM »
in your budget id go with tascam dr100-mkiii and the line audio cm3. if you really couls lose the internal mics the mixpre3 is a slight upgrade from the tascam
my facemask is a windscreen

People whose posts I wont see:
capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, noahbickart, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62

Online MakersMarc

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4459
  • Gender: Male
  • 😈
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2019, 01:05:36 PM »
pair of used Busman BSC-1, pair of XLrs and a used p48 recorder. Should ring up around $500-600. Busmans come with 4 patterns, whichnis really nice. Line Audios are fine, but imho the Busmans sound significantly better.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline barrettphisher

  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1476
  • Gender: Male
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 01:06:22 PM »
pair of used Busman BSC-1, pair of XLrs and a used p48 recorder. Should ring up around $500-600. Busmans come with 4 patterns, whichnis really nice. Line Audios are fine, but imho the Busmans sound significantly better.

The ability to run different patterns is essential in my opinion.   Every room is different and the ability to experiment to get the best setup is what I am after. 
Mics: ADK A51 TL's C12s, at853's (card, hyper, sub, and omni caps), Michael Joly Premium Electronics Modded Oktava mk012s (Card, Hyper and Omni caps), Busman BSC1 Stereo Kit, and Oktava 319.
Pres: V3 opti/M-S Modded, BM2p+ UA5, church audio 9100, 3 wire BB
Recorders:  Busman Mod Tascam DR-680, ACM HD-P2, HD-P2, MT2 x2, D50, M10, JB3 x2, M1, D8

Offline seththedude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2019, 02:17:37 PM »
in your budget id go with tascam dr100-mkiii and the line audio cm3. if you really couls lose the internal mics the mixpre3 is a slight upgrade from the tascam

After talking with some buddies this weekend who might be assisting with some taping I am leaning towards dropping the internal mics. I could just setup a few mics pretty easily for any situation where I would have used the on-board mics for 99% of the time. The simplicity of onboard preamps is something I would like to maintain for my wife as well for when she is assisting.

I am starting to look at the Tascam DR-60DMKII as the recorder and the Line Audio or Busman mics recommended here.

Tascam DR-70D is another option. Thinking it might be more worth it to put the $ toward mics and other misc expenses that will pop up though (I had a gig this weekend and need to buy some more xlr and speaker cables. All comes form the same budget). I can upgrade in the future if i need more xlr channels.

You should add the Line Audio CM4 (or CM3 if you can find them) to your list of mics to consider. They (Line Audio in general and the CM3 specifically) punch WAY above their price.

I am going to strongly support Heathen's suggestion to look at the Line CM4 mic. They have an incredibly high value-for-dollar ratio (about $120 each) and are definitely good enough for open taping and also they are tiny -- about the size of a traditional XLR plug. Very versatile. If I were only going to have one setup that didn't involve active cables i would go with 2 Line CM4 + either Tascam DR-100mkIII or the Sound Devices MixPre3.

Have fun. It does seem like there are fewer tapers out there and it does seem like there is a much more hostile approach from my local beer-selling venues even when an artist is reluctantly allowing taping (like Robyn Hitchcock) or completely pro-taper like Mike Watt.

I'll check out the Line Audio stuff. Any experience using them for recording acoustic instruments in a studio setting?

This was recorded with just a pair of CM3s into a SD 702 (credit to Voltronic for the link): https://douglaswhates.com/projects/opalinska-and-whates/

Very impressive for just the Line Audios into a stand alone recorder. Looks like the SD 702 is higher quality that the Tascams I'm looking at but a great testament to the Line Audio CM3s.

pair of used Busman BSC-1, pair of XLrs and a used p48 recorder. Should ring up around $500-600. Busmans come with 4 patterns, whichnis really nice. Line Audios are fine, but imho the Busmans sound significantly better.

The ability to run different patterns is essential in my opinion.   Every room is different and the ability to experiment to get the best setup is what I am after. 

Very good point for the Busmans.
Sethro in Southern Oregon. Mandolin Maniac and Bluegrass Lover

AT4041 > Tascam DR-40x

Offline seththedude

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Another getting back into taping thread!
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2019, 07:07:37 PM »
So finally ended up purchasing some stuff to begin the taping journey again. Went with a Tascam Dr-40x and some AT4041 stereo studio pack mics. The bluegrass group I play with was all about the mics for recording so they ate more of the budget than anticipated but it's nice having band members excited to record. Decided on the cheaper Tascam to get started with. If I find myself recording more I'll probably pick up a nicer recorder or preamp in the future but figured this was a decent one to start with.

Have a few local brewery shows in the coming weeks to test it out. Then YMSB/Stringduster NW shows followed by Mike Gordon Band in Jan. Need to pick up a stand (looking at the Photek at B&H that has been recommended on the board recently.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.  :cheers:
Sethro in Southern Oregon. Mandolin Maniac and Bluegrass Lover

AT4041 > Tascam DR-40x

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.058 seconds with 56 queries.
© 2002-2020 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF