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Author Topic: I'm going crazy trying to decide...  (Read 1890 times)

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Offline TheBishop

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I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« on: November 24, 2019, 11:25:51 AM »
I've recently got back in to taping, and Christmas is coming up.  Right now I'm rolling a Tascam HD-P2 and Sennheiser ME80/40 mics.  I do have *one* ME20 at my disposal as well.

I was thinking that I wanted some new mics since mine came to me 2nd or 3rd hand and are 30 or 40 years old at this point.  So I've been doing some research.  While I'd love to have some Schoeps or Neumanns, that ain't in my budget.  Hell, even new AKGs aren't even in my budget, my budget being maybe up to $500.

So I've been listening to a lot of shows on the LMA to check out different "budget" mics, and I am not hearing any differences there that really make me want to change mics.

I was thinking that maybe I'd give the Line Audio CM4s a try, but there aren't a lot of examples of them out on the Archive. There a some of the CM3s, but it seems like they excel with acoustic acts and well behaved crowds. I've been digging in the stacks here, and there was a lot of talk about the Busman BSC1s, but it seems like the Busman guy has disappeared.  I checked out several Rodes, but again, I didn't feel like I'd really be gaining anything.

I really like the flexibility of interchangeable capsules.

Listening to the shows, I'm also thinking that maybe I prefer the sound of my supercardioids over omnis or standard cardioids.  Or maybe I'm just used to them.

Here are a couple of examples of shows that I've recorded...

Melvin Seals & JGB (Sennheiser ME80): https://archive.org/details/jgb2019-10-24.aud.flac24

Larry Keel Experience (Sennheiser ME40): https://archive.org/details/lke2019-11-16.aud.2448

And here is Ratdog from 20 years ago with those same ME80s: https://archive.org/details/rd1999-11-09.AUD.148334.flac16

I used to tape in large theatres and outdoor shows from the lawn, with the occasional small club.  Now I think that I'll probably be doing more small venue stuff (capacity 120-600), with the occasional outdoor festival (Lockn').  There aren't many large theatres where I live now.

Should I continue my mic search, or maybe look at a new recorder (which I also want) that would allow me to record 4 or 6 tracks a time? Are there any shows on the Archive that you feel really show how well some of the budget mikes can shine?

Offline EmRR

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 11:48:35 AM »
I was thinking that maybe I'd give the Line Audio CM4s a try

That's my first thought with that budget.  The only thing with those being flat mics, at distance you may find yourself needing to add treble, but not a big deal.   I run ruler flat Sennheisers all the time without having to add treble. 

Those samples sound fine, really.  I can't fault those Senn you have. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 02:50:41 PM by EmRR »
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline barrettphisher

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 02:07:55 PM »
Nice pair of ADK A51 TL' in the yard sale for $500.00, 4 patterns great bang for your buck value.
Barrett
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 11:31:28 AM by barrettphisher »
Mics: ADK A51 TL's C12s, at853's (card, hyper, sub, and omni caps), Michael Joly Premium Electronics Modded Oktava mk012s (Card, Hyper and Omni caps), Busman BSC1 Stereo Kit, and Oktava 319.
Pres: V3 opti/M-S Modded, BM2p+ UA5, church audio 9100, 3 wire BB
Recorders:  Busman Mod Tascam DR-680, ACM HD-P2, HD-P2, MT2 x2, D50, M10, JB3 x2, M1, D8

Online heathen

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 03:31:55 PM »
Continue searching until you find something that you unequivocally find to be a big upgrade.  Only you will know when you've found it, and you should keep an open mind.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline TheBishop

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 09:02:54 PM »
Continue searching until you find something that you unequivocally find to be a big upgrade.  Only you will know when you've found it, and you should keep an open mind.

I think that is how I’m leaning.  I think I am going to look at picking up another ME20 and maybe a new multitrack recorder like the Tascam DR-680MKII.

Offline aaronji

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 09:04:29 AM »
I was thinking that maybe I'd give the Line Audio CM4s a try, but there aren't a lot of examples of them out on the Archive.

Listening to the shows, I'm also thinking that maybe I prefer the sound of my supercardioids over omnis or standard cardioids.  Or maybe I'm just used to them.

If you prefer more directional mics, you might not like the Line Audios. They are a little more open than many cardioids (he describes them on his site as "slightly wide cardioid"). I think Heathen's advice is good: take your time and find something you really like...

Offline Walstib62

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 04:37:51 PM »
I was thinking that maybe I'd give the Line Audio CM4s a try, but there aren't a lot of examples of them out on the Archive.

Listening to the shows, I'm also thinking that maybe I prefer the sound of my supercardioids over omnis or standard cardioids.  Or maybe I'm just used to them.

If you prefer more directional mics, you might not like the Line Audios. They are a little more open than many cardioids (he describes them on his site as "slightly wide cardioid"). I think Heathen's advice is good: take your time and find something you really like...


then buy those mics. then a couple years later,  buy some new mics. that you think you will like better . Rinse and repeat!

Offline TheBishop

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 04:41:51 PM »
It's a vicious cycle...

Offline aaronji

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2019, 06:05:14 PM »
^ I don't think it has to be, if you think carefully about what your current set up is lacking, listen to lots of samples and read lots of opinions. Take your time, save up your money, and get what you think will best address your concerns. You might still end up going through the process several times (particularly to address different recording situations), but I think you can avoid "upgrade-itis" to some extent by putting a lot of thought into your purchases before impulsively pulling the trigger...

Offline illconditioned

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 06:48:03 PM »
Just keep going with the Senns.

Next step?  My recommendation, Beyerdynamic MC930 Stereo Pair, $800-$1000 street price.
Great sound for what we do.  Super robust, high output, sent directly to your deck,line input.



Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline voltronic

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 08:09:43 PM »
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q | AT 853
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Zoom F6 | Sony PCM-M10

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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline goodcooker

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 09:14:34 AM »

I recently sold pairs of Schoeps MK41 (hypercard) and MBHO KA300 (wide card) and ended up staying with a pair of Joly modified Okatava MK012. The cardioid caps sound remarkably like the Neumann AK40 and the hyper caps sound great with plenty of off axis rejection and nice bass response. Haven't had a chance to run the omnis on a split but I will next summer when I get some outside shows.

Got the pair with all three capsule sets (factory matched with response curve charts) for under $600 gently used.

Here's an up close recording a couple feet from the stage with the cardioids - https://archive.org/details/thp2019-11-16.jolymod.oktava.stagelip - straight into the preamps on a Tascam DR701d
and one with the hypers from the back of the floor of a boomy arena - https://soundcloud.com/roger-cox-7/02heypockyway?in=roger-cox-7/sets/widespread-panic-2019-10-31-and-11-02-lakefront-arena-special-guests-and-covers-compilation - into a Grace V2

I don't know that you would realize a big improvement over your current mics but it's an option that fits the criteria if you want to try something different.
Joly Mod Oktava MK012 C,H,O  or NakCM300 > Sound Devices 442 or Reference Audio Designs MS2 > Tascam DR701d
Transfers - Tascam DA30 (dats) or Nak MR2 (cassettes) > Sound Devices USB Pre

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

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Offline TheBishop

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Re: I'm going crazy trying to decide...
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2019, 10:06:39 AM »
Thanks, I'll listen to them.

 

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