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Author Topic: Posted in Mics & Setup, but might go better here... New mics vs new recorder  (Read 1731 times)

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Offline TheBishop

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I've recently got back in to taping, and Christmas is coming up.  Right now I'm rolling a Tascam HD-P2 and Sennheiser ME80/40 mics.  I do have *one* ME20 at my disposal as well.

I was thinking that I wanted some new mics since mine came to me 2nd or 3rd hand and are 30 or 40 years old at this point.  So I've been doing some research.  While I'd love to have some Schoeps or Neumanns, that ain't in my budget.  Hell, even new AKGs aren't even in my budget, my budget being maybe up to $500.

So I've been listening to a lot of shows on the LMA to check out different "budget" mics, and I am not hearing any differences there that really make me want to change mics.

I was thinking that maybe I'd give the Line Audio CM4s a try, but there aren't a lot of examples of them out on the Archive. There a some of the CM3s, but it seems like they excel with acoustic acts and well behaved crowds. I've been digging in the stacks here, and there was a lot of talk about the Busman BSC1s, but it seems like the Busman guy has disappeared.  I checked out several Rodes, but again, I didn't feel like I'd really be gaining anything.

I really like the flexibility of interchangeable capsules.

Listening to the shows, I'm also thinking that maybe I prefer the sound of my supercardioids over omnis or standard cardioids.  Or maybe I'm just used to them.

Here are a couple of examples of shows that I've recorded...

Melvin Seals & JGB (Sennheiser ME80): https://archive.org/details/jgb2019-10-24.aud.flac24

Larry Keel Experience (Sennheiser ME40): https://archive.org/details/lke2019-11-16.aud.2448

And here is Ratdog from 20 years ago with those same ME80s: https://archive.org/details/rd1999-11-09.AUD.148334.flac16

I used to tape in large theatres and outdoor shows from the lawn, with the occasional small club.  Now I think that I'll probably be doing more small venue stuff (capacity 120-600), with the occasional outdoor festival (Lockn').  There aren't many large theatres where I live now.

Should I continue my mic search, or maybe look at a new recorder (which I also want) that would allow me to record 4 or 6 tracks a time? Are there any shows on the Archive that you feel really show how well some of the budget mikes can shine?

Offline beatkilla

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Those samples sound pretty good to me.

If it ain't broke don't fix it

Offline TheBishop

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Those samples sound pretty good to me.

If it ain't broke don't fix it

I’m leaning toward picking up another ME20 and going for a new multitrack recorder instead.

Offline Niels

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If you don't have a well defined need, and actually really want something outside your assigned budget - whatever you buy with the 500$ will not be satisfying.

I personally find it really cool when people are using old trusted equipment, and know it well enough to comfortably work around its limitations.
Olympus LS-10, Roland R-07 SONY PCM-A10 -> FEL Communications Clippy EM172 or Roland CS-10EM
iPhone 8 -> Shure MV88 or Sennheiser AMBEO Smart Headset

Offline barrettphisher

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You could also send in your P2 to Doug Oade and get it modded. 
Mics: ADK A51 TL's C12s, at853's (card, hyper, sub, and omni caps), Michael Joly Premium Electronics Modded Oktava mk012s (Card, Hyper and Omni caps), Busman BSC1 Stereo Kit, and Oktava 319.
Pres: V3 opti/M-S Modded, BM2p+ UA5, church audio 9100, 3 wire BB
Recorders:  Busman Mod Tascam DR-680, ACM HD-P2, HD-P2, MT2 x2, D50, M10, JB3 x2, M1, D8

Offline MakersMarc

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You could also send in your P2 to Doug Oade and get it modded.




This would improve sound far more than a different recorder or mildly upgraded mics. Well worth the dollars. I think it is $150 or so. Hell also check it out and bench test it for a couple of days. My favorite of any warm mod is the P2 mod. :headphones:
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline TheBishop

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I've been pretty happy with the deck.  I'm more interested in being able to run two sets of mics, or additional mics and a soundboard feed at the same time.

Offline heathen

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I've been pretty happy with the deck.  I'm more interested in being able to run two sets of mics, or additional mics and a soundboard feed at the same time.
You should be able to score a good 4+ channel recorder on the used market for a good deal.  My guess is the best bang-for-the-buck you're likely to find are a Tascam DR-680 mkII, Zoom F4, Roland R44, or Zoom H6.  I'm probably leaving something out, but what I'm trying to think of are not necessarily the best 4+ channel recorders, but the ones that are fully capable for the sort of recording you seem to do (loud rock-ish concerts) while being available for relatively cheap.

If what you're after is more channels (a good idea, if for no other reason than being able to grab a sbd feed) don't spend the money on getting your current recorder modded.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline todd e

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id recommend grabbing another hdp2 which can easily be linked via timecode to make a 4ch recording vs. 2ch.
not more than $150-200 for a second deck, you can leave at home if you know in advance you wont be recording all channels

did you come from reddit by-chance?  i recognize that gear from a convo i had a few weeks ago about a taper dusting off gear etc.  if so, welcome.  if not, welcome  ;-)

Offline TheBishop

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I did come from reddit on your suggestion!  In fact, it was kind of because of that show you shared with me that led me to look for new mics.  I liked the sound of your ck21s (and mk41s) and was looking for something similar that wouldn't break the bank.  That led me to the Line Audios which would also kinda/sorta be in the subcardioid range.

But since I've gotten back in to taping a couple of things have happened... my kids have gotten interested and want to learn more AND a funny thing happened at the venue where I taped my first show in 11 years.  That was JGB back in October.  I posted that show up on LMA and mentioned it a couple of times on Facebook.  I went back a couple of weeks later to tape Zach Nugent and after the show the director for the venue gave me some free passes and asked me to tape more shows.  I guess they got some traction from the posts on LMA and Facebook.  So the following night I went back and got to tape Larry Keel for free.

So I'm thinking that a DR-680 mkII would allow me to run a couple of pairs of mics, or two omnis and a shotgun/supercardioid and get a soundboard feed at the same time, something that my HD-P2 (or two cascaded together) won't allow me to do.  Also, I almost have enough spare K3 and ME80 modules laying around that I could hook my kids up with their own rig pretty easy. We go to Lockn' each year as a family and it would be fun to tape there with them.

The Sennheiser mics are so cheap on Ebay right now that I'm kind of surprised that they aren't recommended more for new budget-minded folks getting in to the hobby.

Your shows sound really good though, wish I could swing those Scheops!

Offline heathen

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The Sennheiser mics are so cheap on Ebay right now that I'm kind of surprised that they aren't recommended more for new budget-minded folks getting in to the hobby.

I've also been really impressed with some of the lower cost Sennheiser mics.  There's a guy on here who has made some absolutely killer recordings with ME64s.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline todd e

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I did come from reddit on your suggestion!  In fact, it was kind of because of that show you shared with me that led me to look for new mics.  I liked the sound of your ck21s (and mk41s) and was looking for something similar that wouldn't break the bank.  That led me to the Line Audios which would also kinda/sorta be in the subcardioid range.

But since I've gotten back in to taping a couple of things have happened... my kids have gotten interested and want to learn more AND a funny thing happened at the venue where I taped my first show in 11 years.  That was JGB back in October.  I posted that show up on LMA and mentioned it a couple of times on Facebook.  I went back a couple of weeks later to tape Zach Nugent and after the show the director for the venue gave me some free passes and asked me to tape more shows.  I guess they got some traction from the posts on LMA and Facebook.  So the following night I went back and got to tape Larry Keel for free.

So I'm thinking that a DR-680 mkII would allow me to run a couple of pairs of mics, or two omnis and a shotgun/supercardioid and get a soundboard feed at the same time, something that my HD-P2 (or two cascaded together) won't allow me to do.  Also, I almost have enough spare K3 and ME80 modules laying around that I could hook my kids up with their own rig pretty easy. We go to Lockn' each year as a family and it would be fun to tape there with them.

The Sennheiser mics are so cheap on Ebay right now that I'm kind of surprised that they aren't recommended more for new budget-minded folks getting in to the hobby.

Your shows sound really good though, wish I could swing those Scheops!

word up, glad ya made it over and are getting back into it!  i've dragged my boy to a few day shows and lockn, so he knows that dad still tapes sometimes ;-)
thanks for your compliment, as with anything, i am very glad to have discovered taping 25yrs back, i'd be much worse off and prob less liver ;0

Offline TheBishop

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Taking my son (16) tonight to a Sons of FUNK show, should be fun. It will be his first time taping with me.  My daughter (13) was with me when I taped JGB back in October.

"Grammy Award-winning Parliament-Funkadelic member Billy "Bass" Nelson and Rico "Smoov" Lewis, long-time drummer for George Clinton and the P-Funk AllStars, have formed the "Intergalactic Council of Space Funk" known as SONS of F.U.N.K Bringing the funk to the people all throughout the galaxy, Sons of F.U.N.K. is designed to Funkatize your mind! The mothership will hover over 5 Points Music Sanctuary this December, but it's up to everyone in the building to get it down!"

I think that if we had the quality of shows here that y'all get up in C-Ville that I probably never would have gone on vacation for so long.

i am very glad to have discovered taping 25yrs back, i'd be much worse off and prob less liver ;0

Sounds like we started taping at about the same time.  It's funny too, my hobby after taping was to start homebrewing.  My liver seems to be holding up so far though.

My wife rolled her eyes when I told her that I was going to tape Lockn' this year.  She hates the OTS.

Offline TheBishop

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BTW, Sons of FUNK tore it up last night.

I'm trying to get them to send an email to LMA so that they can get listed. I spoke with Rico last night and he was in to it.

 

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