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Author Topic: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic  (Read 2442 times)

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Offline EmRR

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Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« on: December 27, 2019, 04:06:20 PM »
https://voyage.audio/spatialmic/

Doesn't take a lot of level, borderline for anything close and loud.

USB and ADAT Lightpipe outputs.  No analog. 

USB bus powered via USB-C or external 5v source via micro-USB.
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 05:25:14 PM »
Interesting. Note the similar configuration to the Core OctoMic - a double tetrahedron with 180° orientation of the overlapping tetra, which makes it a.. looking it up now.. stella octangula?  More importantly, how well-behaved are the 2nd order patterns from these 8 element arrays I wonder?  Anyone come across any AES papers reporting measurements of them with regards to 2nd order spatial performance?

Just based on channel count alone it seems to me this is about where analog out becomes impractical and USB connectivity becomes compelling.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2019, 10:04:37 PM »
Those look like "transsound" capsules.  Plastic 3d printing for housing.
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 08:49:47 AM »
"too sensitive" seems to be a problem that I've found with every ambisonic mic i've tried.   From my st250, which was $5k new, 20yrs ago....to the $250 Zoom.   

Offline EmRR

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 11:34:12 AM »
I’d guess you generally want sensitivity here to overcome the increased noise of mixing so many capsules.
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 09:02:56 PM »
More importantly, how well-behaved are the 2nd order patterns from these 8 element arrays I wonder?  Anyone come across any AES papers reporting measurements of them with regards to 2nd order spatial performance?

You can see the Core Sound OctoMic's polar directivity patterns here:

www.core-sound.com/OctoMic/2.php

Yes, they are real, measured patterns.

Each OctoMic is individually calibrated. And its capsule mount array geometry is not the same as the microphone from Voyage.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 09:04:46 PM by Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) »
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 09:07:22 PM »
I’d guess you generally want sensitivity here to overcome the increased noise of mixing so many capsules.

It's not intuitive, but for these microphones, every time you double the number of capsules, the self-noise drops by 3 dB.

That's because the output increases by 6 dB every time you double the number of capsules, but - because the noise between capsules is uncorrelated - the noise increases by only 3 dB. The net result is a 3 dB decrease in self-noise.
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 09:08:35 PM »
"too sensitive" seems to be a problem that I've found with every ambisonic mic i've tried.   From my st250, which was $5k new, 20yrs ago....to the $250 Zoom.

You won't find that to be the case with Core Sound's OctoMic.
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2019, 08:51:10 AM »
More importantly, how well-behaved are the 2nd order patterns from these 8 element arrays I wonder?  Anyone come across any AES papers reporting measurements of them with regards to 2nd order spatial performance?

You can see the Core Sound OctoMic's polar directivity patterns here:

www.core-sound.com/OctoMic/2.php

Yes, they are real, measured patterns.

Thanks for posting the link and polars Len.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline EmRR

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2019, 09:47:40 AM »
I’d guess you generally want sensitivity here to overcome the increased noise of mixing so many capsules.

It's not intuitive, but for these microphones, every time you double the number of capsules, the self-noise drops by 3 dB.

That's because the output increases by 6 dB every time you double the number of capsules, but - because the noise between capsules is uncorrelated - the noise increases by only 3 dB. The net result is a 3 dB decrease in self-noise.

Thanks, so that’s a common misconception then. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2019, 10:00:50 AM »
I always figured that it was more due to the sound sources a mic like these ambisonic offerings were meant for.
rock concerts is not on the list.

Offline EmRR

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2019, 01:01:50 PM »
True, though I wonder about SPL's at sports events where they are used for surround.  Those definitely approach concert levels at times.
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline heathen

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2019, 04:39:26 PM »
I never had a problem with the TetraMic at loud concerts.  That's the only ambisonic mic I've used.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2019, 09:20:52 PM »

#SCIENCE!
Thanks for the informative post, Len!!
It's not intuitive, but for these microphones, every time you double the number of capsules, the self-noise drops by 3 dB.

That's because the output increases by 6 dB every time you double the number of capsules, but - because the noise between capsules is uncorrelated - the noise increases by only 3 dB. The net result is a 3 dB decrease in self-noise.
Merrick Garland *was* a compromise, and just look.

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Another 2nd order Ambisonic mic: Votage Audio Spatial Mic
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 10:48:51 PM »
I always figured that it was more due to the sound sources a mic like these ambisonic offerings were meant for.
rock concerts is not on the list.

Rock concerts recorded with a Core Sound OctoMic (a second-order ambisonic microphone):

https://archive.org/details/fotb2019-05-22.2019-05-22-octomic
http://core-sound.com/temp/BTTG1969-11-3-2018-SomebodyToLove-VVStereo.wav

There are more recordings at: www.core-sound.com/OctoMic/13.php
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

 

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