First time taper? . . . JB3 + GbV

[barthatronic]

Hello,

After being sent here by some folks at SharingtheGroove.com, I've been browsing this site for the last couple of weeks trying to learn as much as I can in a short amount of time. I'm no audio engineer, but I'm eager to learn what I need do to get the job done right. My favorite band, Guided by Voices, is playing their final shows throughout this year and I'd like to tape as many as possible. I'm sorry to resort to asking questions before thoroughly studying the entire site, but I'm crunched for time and the people on here provide info masterfully. So, here goes...

I've ditched the idea of trying to tape any shows with my old, yet pristine, Sony MZ-1 MD and (after what I've read here) I'm about to purchase a Creative refurbed 20GB JB3 from eBay. I've read the JB3 FAQ (which is excellent) but still feel I need help filling in some gaps. I guess I really need some advice as to what other gear I'll absolutely need. I've been looking for good quality, low cost mics (somewhere around $100? I'm considering powered mics from Giant Squid Audio Lab) but I'd also like to be able to patch in to the soundboard (if possible at venues). I'm looking for simplicity (less gear, but the right gear) and versatility (possible situations to include stealth/SBD/mic stand).

Pardon the pun, but I need sound advice. Your recommendations, purchasing suggestions, and links would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance...

[Sean Gallemore]

read this

probably the most kick ass mini mics for the price.  I can loan you my battery box to power these mics.  IMNSHO, these are better than Giant Squids.

[Humbug]

These SPCMC2 mics are fab..I've just made my 40th stealth recording with them in 1 1/2 years. Zero problems.

Please spend the extra (don't forget the battery box w/bass roll off), you won't regret it.

Only thing to note is the mics need careful mounting to make sure they face towards the speakers.

Humbug
UK

[barthatronic]

So you both recommend the mics from Sound Professionals over the Giant Squids. There's a significant price difference once you add in the clips,  battery box (and not phantom power?) and bass roll-off (which is also recommended, correct?). I'm looking at around $184 vs. $80 before shipping. And I should be looking at cardioids instead of omni, right?

Will I need anything else other than those mics and the JB3? What about ADC? Is it necessary? Any advice on that? How significant is the sound difference? What's the best ADC for the price?

Also, where can I buy the necessary soundboard adapter cables for the best prices? Difference in quality by vendor? What's the most common adapters used? Most of these shows will be in small to mid-sized venues. Any advice on this topic is extremely helpful (I'm thinking I might be able to get soundboard access).

[twatts]

Few things,  if GbV allows taping, get a bigger "non-stealth" rig, its easier.  If you ahve to stealth, go with the best mics possible.  You don't have the luxury of tons of gadgets in line between the mics and recorder (like preamps, and ADCs, etc.) so get good mics.  Personally I feel the mics are the most important part of the rig, being the "ears".

As for ADC (Analog>digital convertor) the AD20 is designed to be portable, though it may not be stealthy (3"x5"x1").  Its probably the smallest, yet excellent quality, ADC out there.

To record AUD cheaply with NJB3:
SPmics>NJB3 (line in) - simple easy.

Add the AD20:
SPmics>AD20>Optical>NJB3 (optical in) - little bit more stuff, just as easy, perhaps better sound, though mic position is MOST crucial.  This rig will give worse recordings if in the wrong spot.

To record SBD:
SBD>RCA to 1/8"TRS cable>NJB3.  easy simple, just like the AUD.

Good luck!

T

[Sean Gallemore]

So you both recommend the mics from Sound Professionals over the Giant Squids. There's a significant price difference once you add in the clips,  battery box (and not phantom power?) and bass roll-off (which is also recommended, correct?). I'm looking at around $184 vs. $80 before shipping. And I should be looking at cardioids instead of omni, right?

Will I need anything else other than those mics and the JB3? What about ADC? Is it necessary? Any advice on that? How significant is the sound difference? What's the best ADC for the price?

Also, where can I buy the necessary soundboard adapter cables for the best prices? Difference in quality by vendor? What's the most common adapters used? Most of these shows will be in small to mid-sized venues. Any advice on this topic is extremely helpful (I'm thinking I might be able to get soundboard access).

Like I said, you can borrow my battery box so you don't have to drop another $80 on that.  You will be glad you made this choice over the GS mics.  And an adc is not necessary, but it can help.  Good luck

[barthatronic]

You will be glad you made this choice over the GS mics.

I'm not trying to question your knowledge here, but what about the Giant Squid offerings is so bad? I was under the impression that the mics were very similar... Have you worked with both (or heard a compairison)? I was drawn to them after seeing some people on here say good things as well as their very low price.

Only thing to note is the mics need careful mounting to make sure they face towards the speakers.

SPmics>AD20>Optical>NJB3 (optical in) - little bit more stuff, just as easy, perhaps better sound, though mic position is MOST crucial.

So, mic position is much more important with an ADC? In terms of quality, how much better is recording with an ADC than just going straight in from the mics (assuming I'm going with the more expensive mics)? Where can I learn about proper mic positioning? I'm interested in knowing the various ways how people mount their mics and what the best ways are. I've wondered if taping the show ever gets in the way of actually enjoying the show... mounting the rig somewhere safe (?) seems to be a way around that.

I really appreciate the time and help you all have given so far. Thanks for the offer on the battery box too. You guys rock.

[Sean Gallemore]

You will be glad you made this choice over the GS mics.

I'm not trying to question your knowledge here, but what about the Giant Squid offerings is so bad? I was under the impression that the mics were very similar... Have you worked with both (or heard a compairison)? I was drawn to them after seeing some people on here say good things as well as their very low price.

ok, lemme rephrase.

My ears tell me that I prefer the SP-CMC-2 sound over the "GSB" sound, is that better?  You are free to make your own choices.

[formengr]

There's a 2003-08-31 Radiohead recording from Auburn, WA.  That recording is why I chose the rig I did. I highly recommend the SPcmc2's & B-Box w/rolloff.  Check these links if you'd like to sample my wares(dunno how seeded they are).

My Pixies recording from Coachella: http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63583&highlight=coachella

My Radiohead recording from Coachella: http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63264&highlight=coachella

Good luck.  And remember, use the line in setting on the Nomad, not the mic in.

[ponape]

A litlle bit off topic ; i purchased a refurbished Jb3 and try to record as a test some music at home ; but (it may be a silly questions) there is no level when you record.I have gs powered mic.I am interesting in recording wav 48khz but have i missed somethning ;
i am very disapointed.I have look trough the Faq but didint find anything on that point

[Humbug]

Upgrade the Firmware and you will see meters.

Running 1.20.06 and all is OK, although plenty of people here run later upgrades.

[ponape]

thanks!!! :-)

[pfife]

To record AUD cheaply with NJB3:
SPmics>NJB3 (line in) - simple easy.

Add the AD20:
SPmics>AD20>Optical>NJB3 (optical in) - little bit more stuff, just as easy, perhaps better sound, though mic position is MOST crucial.  This rig will give worse recordings if in the wrong spot.

No battery box?  I think you need the battery box for either of the mentioned setups above... but I could be wrong- I have the aforementioned rig, w/AD-20, and I have never tried it w/o the battery box, but I am pretty sure you need it, esp. w/o  the ad-20.

[barthatronic]

schwill, I hope you understand I'm counting on the expertise of those posting here to make my decisions. I didn't mean to call your preference into question (I've heard a VERY limited amount of samples), I just wondered if you knew some solid facts that should steer me away from the Giant Squid mics. I'm leaning more towards the SP-CMC-2's after reading more. Looks like they're used by many here...

ISI-HMAB-1 --> SP-SPSB-3 --> AD-20 -->NJB3

What is ISI-HMAB-1? And does the AD-20 make a huge difference in quality? I'm still hoping someone can tell me a bit more about ADC and also mic placement/mounting.

[Tony B]

[quote  And does the AD-20 make a huge difference in quality? I'm still hoping someone can tell me a bit more about ADC and also mic placement/mounting.

You know, I struggled with the whole "to AD or not to AD" for a while, and even recently posted a "Do I REALLY need an AD" thread here...and while I made many many many great tapes with the SP mics (SP-CMC 12)->Batt Box, I will admit that when I picked up an AD, it really did make a lot of difference in the quality of the recording.

That being said, I personally think that for starters, you should dump as much money into your mics as you're comfortable with, make sure you get a Batt box so that the mics are able to handle LOUD bands (i.e., GBV) without distorting, and run it LINE IN to a JB3 (Great choice in redcording device, BTW). Then, after you have a few shows under your belt, decide for yourself if an AD is for you.

RE: Placement, if you do decide to pick up the SP mics, I have a "posable" T Bar from Soundprofessionals that I don't use any more really, so you could borrow that and mount your mics in what they call an "AB" configuration, which will give you adequate stereo seperation and let you see how your mics sound (and if you go with the SP mics, you'll be amazed. They're GREAT for the price). Again, I think for starters you should keep it simple...that's how I "started" (I'm learning every day), and it worked for me. Good luck.

TB