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Author Topic: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing  (Read 347 times)

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Offline jerryfreak

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schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« on: July 15, 2020, 08:02:31 PM »
a friend is using MK5s to make stereo recordings of his violin performances with a focusrite (8x8 i beleive)

He feels like the sound is a little 'bright' on a few strings.

I explained to him that he could EQ out the 'bumps' to get a reasonably close expectation of what a regular MK2 or MK4 would sound like, and if that wasnt adequate, maybe schoeps wasnt the sound he was looking for, and perhaps a transformer pre, or a different brand of microphone was in order

thoughts from guys who have mic'd string instruments in a small studio/performance hall like setting? im assuming hes using various stereo patterns at a distance of a few feet.
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Offline EmRR

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2020, 08:20:47 PM »
Which pattern? 

Both have the treble bump you expect for diffuse field recording, meaning distance.  The omni bump extends lower than in cardioid.  If he's working close, you would expect to EQ accordingly.  Same with MANY SDC's. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2020, 08:51:11 PM »
i think our knowledge base was that beyond a few feet, proximity effect is about the same. (as opposed to close micing vocals or mounting mic on instrument itself
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Offline DSatz

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2020, 09:36:57 PM »
It's nice that your friend doesn't want the violin to sound on a recording the way it sounds to him while he's playing it! That would require a very bright microphone indeed (although such microphones certainly exist).

You (or we) would need to find out what he's actually doing with the microphones, though--pattern setting, distance from the violin, distance from each other, and very important: what the room sounds like. All other things being equal, a small room will never sound as good as a larger one. The smaller the room, the "deader" it needs to be, and the less beautiful the recording will sound.

Also, just to cover all the bases, please make sure he knows that the MK 5 doesn't have in-between pattern settings; it's either cardioid or it's omni. Occasionally someone fails to realize that.
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Offline EmRR

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2020, 10:24:21 PM »
i think our knowledge base was that beyond a few feet, proximity effect is about the same. (as opposed to close micing vocals or mounting mic on instrument itself

Maybe not following you, but the mic is treble equalized for recording at a distance, rather than close.  That's what I mean.  Close, you may have to turn treble down for it to sound balanced.  Proximity is a different aspect, but also to be considered in cardioid, in regards to bass. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2020, 11:17:13 PM »
Quote from: violinguy
Thanks for the forward. I'm in a 12x16' studio with 13' ceilings and 6 acoustic panels with carpet and four 2x4 baffles from gik acoustics. I've tried recording violins solo in the room a number of ways with the cmc65 in cardioid and omni switched hard left or right, pointing level, pointing away, and pointing towards the source.

In cardioid I've tried with mics in the center of room:

xy and ortf eye level, 6ft up, 7ft up, 8 ft up, and  3ft, 6ft from source, as well as the same thing in the corners.

I did A/B omni 30cm, 35cm, 40cm, 45cm, 3 ft spaced eye level, 6ft up 8ft up

I think found my best setup is cardioid xy center room 7ft up stacked and tilted 90 degrees off axis towards the ceiling,  which takes some of the edge off. Omnis actually sound brighter and thinner but with more depth of detail. I'd like to get the depth of detail in a warmer tonal setup, not muddy but without as much edge.

the room sounds semi-live, its not completely dead and it has exposed painted walls. If I clap it has a decay of I would guess a 1/4 of a second.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2020, 10:28:08 AM »
Quote from: violinguy
..6ft up, 7ft up, 8 ft up..

..6ft up 8ft up..

I think found my best setup is cardioid xy center room 7ft up stacked and tilted 90 degrees off axis towards the ceiling, which takes some of the edge off. Omnis actually sound brighter and thinner but with more depth of detail. I'd like to get the depth of detail in a warmer tonal setup, not muddy but without as much edge.

Try mic'ing from in front and below, with the microphones pointing towards the underside of the instrument  I realize this is not a typical approach for violin recording, however it is somewhat common for orchestral first/second chair spots.  I've made a number of lovely violin recordings this way.  Good warmth and resonance without the bright shrillness which projects upward.  Can allow closer mic placement which might work well in a small room.

Disclaimer- I'm not a studio recordist!
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Offline EmRR

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Re: schoeps sound while instrument mic'ing
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2020, 11:09:59 AM »
Yeah that’s ^ worth a try.  The description reads like there may be so much diffuse treble returning from the walls that it overwhelms no matter what.  90 degrees off axis points to that.  Might prefer a ribbon!   I’ll add that I have a Neumann km131 which is the flat omni in their line, and it seems soft on the top in many cases, perfect for violin close.  Maybe Line Audio OM1 would be a winner. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

 

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