Topic: Can I use 150M computer DAT tapes for audio taping?

[redbook]

I know it's a recurent question.
I found the following info:

Computer grade DAT tapes work just fine for audio.  They may, but not
necessarily, have fewer dropouts.  They are generally more expensive
and not heavily discounted.

Computer grade DAT tapes are usually marked by length, not playing
time.  A tape that says "60m" is 60 meters long - the same length as a
120 minute DAT.

90m computer grade DATs are available.  These will run for 180 minutes
but the reliability of these tapes is questionable because they are
thinner than standard audio DATs.

But this FAQ is from the earlier 90's.
What I have now is 125M and 150M tapes. Could I use this for taping?

Thanks!

PS: If a 60M data tape equals to a 120min tape, my 150M tape would be 300min??

[greenone]

If it's a DDS2 tape, you CAN use it for taping, but it's not a good idea. I used to have a 120-meter DDS2 tape in the bottom of my bag for taping emergencies only (translation: when dumbass me forgot to pack tapes, or if one got eaten), and used it a couple of times with no problems. But DAT decks, especially portables, aren't properly tensioned for longer tapes and are more likely to have problems recording and playing them back - not to mention that it'll put some strain on your deck's motor and heads by doing so.

--Dave

[Craig T]

can you? yes.  should you? no.  audio DAT transports aren't designed for 90M, 120M, or 150M dds tapes.  I know someone who killed his Sony M1 by running a few 120M's through it.

[redbook]

What I have is a Sony DGP90M DDS3 tape, intended to run in a portable Sony D8. Show to tape is tomorrow, no time to buy a new one.

Then, you recommend NOT to use this?

Thanks for replying

[Craig T]

(copied from Oade Taper Forum - Thanks Doug!)
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=89&mesg_id=89&page=2

Why are 90 meter DDS tapes bad for my DAT deck ?

Well, first let me say it is NOT that it will damage the motors. Someone please tell me who is propagating this non-fact that hides the real, more ugly truth !

They damage the heads, cause data loss and once the head is damaged by a 90 meter tape, the bad head in turn damages your good audio grade tapes ! In short, they can ruin your deck and your collection, unless you know how they behave. I have never seen a motor die due to 90 meter tapes and I have personally repaired over 10,000 DAT decks. 90 meter tapes will break gear clusters, especially in the M1 & D100, but they do not burn out motors. These smaller DAT decks also have smaller heads than studio decks. Smaller heads mean less surface area to wear out, so 90 meter DDS tapes will burn thru these heads faster than audio grade tapes. 90 meter tape users suffer from massive data loss over time, it is not a good idea to use them any more than you must. Do not leave data you want to recover in a few years on a 90 meter tape. If you master on 90's move that data !
No AUDIO machine is designed to handle the longer, thinner, heavier tape. All machine manufacturers say not to use 90 meter tapes. Many tapers are aware of this and factor the convenience and the lower tape cost into the equation. This might make sense for you, the money you save on tapes should be spent for machine maintenance. 90 meter tapes will not save you money, but might keep you from cutting a song in two. The only logical use for them is sets over 2 hours in length. FWIW, I don not use them even under these conditions, I simply swap tapes first chance I get after 1 hour, always works for me. Bear in mind that 90 meter DDS tape also deteriorates faster than 60 meter or shorter tape, so they will have to be replaced more often. The 90 meter DDS tape also develops slack on the reels easily, requiring retensioning of the tape to avoid data loss. This increases head wear and therefore reduces head life. The use of 60 meter DDS tape is okay in any DAT machine, but may still not be up to audio grade standards. They are the same basic design as the audio grade tapes, but there are some differences. The design of the shell is as important as the design of the tape and there are differences between the various manufacturers' shells. Many times the failures we see on cheap tape is due to shell incompatibility or failure. Reliability counts when mastering !

If you have any doubts or are confused by DDS retailers telling you that 90 meter DDS tape is better or even as good as audio grade tape, call the manufacturer of the machine you are using for the truth!

Here is what Sony (and all DAT machine manufacturers) say about tapes longer than 120 minutes (124 minutes are okay). "Do not use cassette tapes with playing time of over 120 minutes to record important material since such tapes are subject to the following problems:

Sound distortion (due to data loss - Doug)

Unstable tape speed after repeated AMS, rewinding, fast-forwarding, cueing or reviewing operations.

Incorrect writing and erasing of start ID's "

I feel this is VERY GOOD advice, as do all DAT machine manufacturers

please see : http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/bad_tascam_head.html for a look at a bad head, then check yours !

Doug

[Craig T]

What I have is a Sony DGP90M DDS3 tape, intended to run in a portable Sony D8. Show to tape is tomorrow, no time to buy a new one.

Then, you recommend NOT to use this?

Thanks for replying

Use the 90M's at your own risk.  I use them occationally for sets that I know are going to run close to or over 2 hrs.  I've had my D7 repaired twice in 11 years - that doesn't seem excessive to me.

Since that's the only tape you have, I'd go ahead and use it.  Order some 60m's for future recording.

[redbook]

Wow Craig, Thanks very much for this informative post.
Very useful. I'd give you one of those +t if I could  

I'd go for this show with the 90m tape, I have no other way to tape.
I guess I still have lots to learn  

[greenone]

They *should* sell DDS2/DDS3 tapes at any larger computer supply store, or even somewhere like Staples, Office Max, CompUSA, etc.

I've had my D8 tuned up once - not even repaired! - in seven years and have used 90m tapes to master two-set shows since the very beginning with no adverse effects. My DA-20 has also never balked at a 90m tape; only my SV-3700 occasionally has tension issues but even those are rare. And my seven-year-old masters still play back just fine - no "massive data loss" here. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Overall, though, you're not going to kill your deck with one 90m...that's like saying one donut will give you a heart attack - it won't, but a steady diet of donuts sure increases the probability.

--Dave

[John Kelly]

I'm not a DAT taper, but everyone I know uses 90m tapes.  Seems to work fine for them...

[hoobash]

I have talked to paul from pro digital about this topic. As full 90m arent good in small portables that use 1/2 size heads(d8,m1). You should be fine with any transport that uses a full size head. I use 90m in my d10 all the time. The d10 has best transport you can get in a portable deck. I had a d100 for a couple of weeks and the transport in it was the reason I dump it

[nickgregory]

this is a topic that everyone has an opinion on....and all have experience to back it up...I have a D100 I have used for 3 years, and the previous owner 2 years, and have run mainly 90M in it for the life of it....never a problem...sent it in to Paul a month ago for the first time, just needed a cleaning, and a couple of parts replaced, but the heads were fine....ymmv

[greenone]

Good point, Nick. But I think we're all in agreement that 120M or 150M is beyond the pale as far as what's good/acceptable for your deck.

Someone else put the 60 vs. 90 debate this way - what you're potentially saving in deck repair by running 60s, you're spending on extra media for any show that goes over 2 hours. I consider it a wash with the amount of tapes I go through.

Oh, and as a clarification to the DDS1/DDS2/DDS3 above...I misspoke. The tapes I use (the Sony DGPs) are DDS1's, apparently. I don't know about recording on DDS2 or DDS3 tapes so you may want to research that on your own.

--Dave

[nickgregory]

Good point, Nick. But I think we're all in agreement that 120M or 150M is beyond the pale as far as what's good/acceptable for your deck.

definitely agree with Dave here...I have only used 60M and 90Ms in my decks and would not venture to anything more risky...