Topic: Edirol R09HR MIC-IN Loud shows??

[Hman]

Hi there,

For the first time in 2,5yrs Im planning on visiting a concert again.. and of course taping it.
I found out though that the LINE-IN on my Edirol R09HR is only picking up the left channel. If tried several other configs but it seems there's something wrong with it.
So I thought, could I tape the concert by going MIC-IN? It seems I'm having no channelproblems with this config.

Anyone of you got any experiences with this setting at loud shows? I know it much more sensitive.
And if not, what would be the input level? I'm using DPA4061s>CA9100>R09HR to record.
Lemme know..

(In the end it might be best to replace this old recorder, but I just want to know the above before I do that)

[aaronji]

What sort of show will you be recording? Generally, I think you will be OK with 4061s mic-in due to their fairly low sensitivity. Might need to turn the gain down pretty low, though. If there is a "low sensitivity" setting on the recorder (I can't recall), you probably want to use that. If it will be really loud, however, you might experience some clipping...

[Gutbucket]

It will work.  I've done the same long, long ago using the original R-09s.  Set MIC-INPUT sensitivity to LOW as mentioned. Not sure what the MIC-IN level setting number is which provides the same sensitivity as LINE-IN, as the numbering differs between the original and HR versions of R-09, but you can determine that with a test (comparing level against the still-good LINE-IN channel), or by searching the Team R09HR thread for the unity gain input setting using MIC-IN.  Once having determined that, you can leave it set there and adjust gain as needed on the 9100.  More importantly, there is a highest lowest input level setting you should not exceed go below to avoid avoid "brick-walling" or clipping the input stage with too hot an input level.

Edited to correct

[Hman]

Thanks for responding!
I will look it up then.. 

[aaronji]

This goes back a while, but check out this Wayback Machine archived page from Guy Lombardo. It says that at minimum gain setting in low sensitivity mode, the R09HR can take a 1.3 dBu signal. The 4061s will output that at a little over 134 dBSPL, which is really loud. So you will probably be OK with a modest gain setting (maybe 10 or 20?).

[aaronji]

P.S. I am sure all of this information is available here, but, given the age and popularity of the recorder, you may have to wade through quite a bunch of old pages...

[Gutbucket]

This goes back a while, but check out this Wayback Machine archived page from Guy Lombardo. It says that at minimum gain setting in low sensitivity mode, the R09HR can take a 1.3 dBu signal. The 4061s will output that at a little over 134 dBSPL, which is really loud. So you will probably be OK with a modest gain setting (maybe 10 or 20?).

The CA-9100 will add up to 20dB of gain (I think) depending on how its set.  Generally for good gain-staging, you want the most gain from the first gain stage, meaning mostly from the 9100, with R09HR set to something around unity gain.

[aaronji]

^ For sure. I have no idea where "unity" is, but I would also try to avoid the minimum setting on the R09HR. Maybe set it at 6 or 11 (2.5 or 5 dB per Guy) and cover the rest with the 9100. I am not sure about the R09HR, but many of these recorders are susceptible to brick-walling if you have to go below a certain gain setting to prevent overload on the meters.

[Gutbucket]

Yes. And thanks Aaron, your post helped me to I realize I mistyped above, now corrected.  (Meant to say don't go below input level setting, not don't go above).

[aaronji]

Yes. And thanks Aaron, your post helped me to I realize I mistyped above, now corrected.  (Meant to say don't go below input level setting, not don't go above).

What you originally wrote is also true, I think, albeit microphone and SPL specific [EDIT: Although that would lead to the meters going over, unlike the brick-walling scenario.] ! It is a shame the input overload spec isn't given for this recorder and many others. Kind of a crucial value...

[Hman]

Ok, i've read a lot of topics so far, but I haven't seen any hard digids.
Especially the topic about 'The myth about unity gain' started by DSatz in december 2011 is very interesting.

Is this what you guys are referring to?

[Gutbucket]

I only vaguely recall that thread, but likely.

Unity gain refers to no effective gain change through a device (an overall gain of zero or unity).  But with an all in one recorder the output is the recorded file, and we don't really know what's going on inside.. Because of that, technically the term unity-gain doesn't apply directly. 

What we are referring to here is:
1) Finding an input level setting for MIC-IN that provides a similar sensitivity as LINE-IN did (in which case the gain setting on the CA-9100 will remain the same).
2) Making sure that MIC-IN input level isn't too low, in which case the input stage can get overloaded, causing "brickwall" hard-clipping distortion without the meters indicating it by peaking to full scale.  Sometimes when that happens the meters may appear to bounce less than they otherwise should, topping out but never exceeding a certain level on the meter (in that case, reduce the gain from the CA-9100 and turn up the input level of the MIC-IN on the recorder).

[DATBoy]

Probably not totally on topic, but I remember owning a 09-HR and I used the internal mics for a Disturbed show in 2009. That was one really loud fucking concert. Probably up there with Dinosaur Jr.

But... the recording turned out great! Couldn't believe it.