Topic: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder

[voltronic]

But the danger is that people may start to overlook the part played by the first two.

Absolutely, and that's what some of the manufacturers implementing this are leading people to believe.

Today I came across a video by a college lecturer in digital audio who said in commenting on a post questioning the preamps of the H1e that any noise problems from the preamps would be dealt with by the 32 bit float format.  Of course I pointed out that those a/d converters would make a very good recording of that noise!

It sounds like this person is not well qualified for their job.

[Chilly Brioschi]

^^ Depends on the source of the noise, but agreed that it is unlikely.
     FLoating point OPerationS (FLOPS) gives massive Dynamic Range (DR), and is not a panacea.
     It is the foundation of an easy to control digital recorder.
     Most say it eliminates the need to set levels, the rest is from other parts in design.
     
Doubled input of differential levels are mathematically conjoined so quiet sounds and loud sounds are more faithfully captured.
This occurs internally, and after the microphone or input connections.

I notice that discussion of "coloration" in the preamp stages has been totally abandoned.
Transparency, I would assume, is now completely the goal.

[colargol]

I got my hands on a PR-2, trying it out to find out if there are any dealbreakers…

So far i have come across one thing that is far from ideal, in my opinion (i only do stealth)…
When recording in stereo mode, which i would always do, the sidus app only has separate gain for left and right, and the gain interface is based on sliders… already i have accidentally hit one of them on changed the gain significantly on one of the channels.
Is there any way to sync the gain on both channels, and ideally have up/down buttons instead? Some setting i haven’t seen…?

Unless i find a way around this, i willl have to return the pr-2 and stick to my a10…

[Gutbucket]

^ Err! regarding simple stuff like that that ends up foiling good plans.  If there is not a way to do it, maybe with enough feedback they'll update the app with a way to lock down gains, or shift those controls to a separate page.  I hoped to use the Zoom F8 app just to start/stop recording and to monitor meters. But I don't because a few things similar to that make it effectively unusable for me.

[Gutbucket]

Most say it eliminates the need to set levels, the rest is from other parts in design.
     
Doubled input of differential levels are mathematically conjoined so quiet sounds and loud sounds are more faithfully captured.
This occurs internally, and after the microphone or input connections.

Second bold first- Not more faithfully captured.   Sampling theory. 

First bold- Level adjustment is unavoidable.  It just makes it possible to shift the making of that adjustment until afterward in many but not all cases.  It can do so as long as the signal fits within the input S/N of the recorder, which is the real-world bottle neck, not the output format.  Recorder and interface implementations using multiple auto-switched ADCs ease that real-world bottle neck to a desirable practical degree.  That's the selling point and why people like it.. and yet the same bit-identical output could also be handled by a 24bit fixed-point output file, in which case the recorded material would require the same level adjustment made to it afterward.

I'm going to the beach!

^That linked Wired article on "32-bit-float-audio-explained" is shamefully weak. This statement in particular is just plain flat out wrong and makes it clear the author has no idea of what he's writing about-
"Now, typically you’ll set audio levels when setting up your equipment to avoid hitting that limit. Setting those levels involves applying gain to the signal from the mic, which is an irreversible step that crushes the dynamic range of even 24-bit recording."

But your link title makes for a good lead-in to a quick story about my bike ride over to the beach this past weekend.  As I was up out of the saddle of a single-speed beach-cruiser cresting the apex of the barrier-island draw-bride, some guy walking along the sidewalk with his friends held out a bottle of water for me.  I grabbed it and immediately poured it over my head while shouting, "Yellow Jersey Tomorrow!"  Half the folks on the sidewalk roared in laughter, while the other half just looked confused. C'est la vie!

[grawk]

^ Err! regarding simple stuff like that that ends up foiling good plans.  If there is not a way to do it, maybe with enough feedback they'll update the app with a way to lock down gains, or shift those controls to a separate page.  I hoped to use the Zoom F8 app just to start/stop recording and to monitor meters. But I don't because a few things similar to that make it effectively unusable for me.

My plan is to set the levels, conservatively knowing the microphones and the genre so that I don’t have to do on the fly adjustments for levels. 24 bits and a 90 dB signal. The noise should leave plenty of room for that in most low profile situations.

[Gutbucket]

That's my plan as well, and how I currently use DR2d. It wouldn't be a concern running a single PR-2, in which case I could just forgo using the app in the same way that I run the F8. My plan while recording is to use the app only for start/stop transport control and clock sync of twos or more PR-2, and simple confirmation everything is working.

The concern raised by colargol's post is the potential for making accidental gain adjustment while doing that.

[grawk]

I don’t personally see a lot of risk in that.

[Gutbucket]

Probably just need to download the app and play around with it in demo mode to determine if my fingers are overly fat or not.

[grawk]

Demo mode doesn’t currently show the pr2

[colargol]

I sent some feedback to the Sidus audio app people, basically suggesting a sync setting for the left/right gain adjustment options, and also an option to use up/down buttons instead of a gain slider. I hope they will consider it…

[Niels]

Curtis Judd uploaded his review yesterday:

https://youtu.be/BQTBaxsGbL0?si=LkgrfAA4O7H59x3g

He represents the intended customer (film makers), but you may extract something anyway.

His reviews are typically very sober, adult and to the point - rarely longer than they have to be, but if you just want the conclusion, you can skip to 12:19 for lists of his perceived Pros and Cons. https://youtu.be/BQTBaxsGbL0?si=E1owbEGpOVh-yxSL&t=739

[Chilly Brioschi]

No 32-bit Float Stereo, likely because it usurps the 2nd ADC for the float function.
In stereo it uses one per channel, I am guessing...

Thanks for the link!

[Sebastian]

I suspect the 90dB s/n spec reflects each individual preamp>ADC channel, while the EIN -130dBu (A-weighting +30dB @ 150ohm) spec, and the Dynamic Range 123dB typ(32-bit Float) spec, reflects the the combined extended input range made available by switching between both 90dB S/N input>ADC circuits, and stitching their outputs back together again.

Actually, the -130 dBu EIN looks a bit dubious. Let's compare this number to some other recorders. The MixPre-6 has an a-weighted EIN of -128 dBU, Zoom F8n has -127 dBu. I doubt the Deity recorder has better noise performance than both of these recorders. In fact, the stated -130 dBu EIN would put the Deity in the same league as i.e. Sonosax. The 150 Ω source resistance (which they claim they used to load the input) emits around -131 dBu of noise at room temperature. And the Deity's EIN is supposed to be just a decibel higher?

[Gutbucket]

Yes, good point and I agree.  Thanks for quantifying it.  To be clear, my speculation was about what those specs are measuring, not their accuracy.