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Author Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4  (Read 605876 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2025, 07:06:10 PM »
I mentioned reworking the rig pictured above a month back before a previous fest - Amp Jam #1 on Suwannee - which in part included eliminating all gaffer tape, now used only for repairs and other temporary applications.  Woo! 

A couple important improvements were made regarding how the Movo windscreens containing the miniature DPA 4097 supercardioids are mounted and sealed to prevent wind entry from the rear.  Below are a few photos of some details of that, followed by a couple taken during the opening set of the fest including one from up front looking back toward the section.

The DPA 4097 supercardioid is the same diameter as the 4060/1 omnis, but are about 2" long and require more robust wind protection.  Movos work well for that but are sized to fit a typical 19 or 20mm diameter SDC, so I fit the mics to the windscreens using little foam cylinders pulled from a cheap dollar-store hair curler set.  They're open cell foam, the right length and diameter, and feature a hole through the center which is perfectly sized to fit the microphone.  Indoors those alone are usually sufficient, but years ago I decided to just run the bigger windscreens everywhere, simply because switching to them when necessary was somewhat of a PITA, and because I ended up using the windscreens themselves as the mic-mounts, which additionally provides a limited amount of shock isolation that's fully sufficient for my needs.  I've posted about those little foam cylinders in these threads in the past as I used them with the big ass Shure's before moving to the Movos. 

One problem is that the hole in the rubber cuff of the Movo is too large to seal around the small diameter gooseneck of the microphone.  In the past I've used gaffer tape to seal that, but it doesn't adhere well to the cuff rubber, so it took a few strips to cover the entire back of the Movo which wrapped around the edge of the cuff secured by an additional narrow strip of gaffer tape wrapped around the cuff like a belt.  Not pretty or neat but it worked.  That's now all eliminated, replaced by by a neoprene disk that fits tightly around the mic-gooseneck and is snugged up tightly against the back of the cuff.  I cut the neoprene disks out of an old large mouse-pad.  The two on the rear-facing pair features an additional small hole through the disk which is offset slightly from center.  That accommodates the support bar which is about the same diameter as the gooseneck and supports the windscreen by wedging between the Movo and the hair curler foam insert.

The Movos used on the forward-facing near-spaced (~24") pair are now attached directly to the horizontal bar via a stainless-steel hose clamp around the Movo cuff (clamp band is covered in black heat-shrink) and a black zip-tie.  The zip-tie is routed in a figure-8 pattern around the bar and the adjustable-screw part of the clamp, an arrangement which secures the Movo tightly to the bar while still allowing sufficient rotational freedom in the horizontal plane to angle that pair mics +/-45 degrees away from center as I typically do, or narrow them to PAS when necessary.

Note- In the second to last photo looking up at the mic array from below, the stage is located below bottom edge of the photo.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2025, 08:36:59 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2025, 08:14:41 PM »
Also worked up revised rain protection.  Excluding the wide-spaced omnis, the central near-spaced mic section of my OMT8 array is to wide to be protected by what I consider a reasonable sized single umbrella, and multiple small umbrellas would be a real PITA.  Instead I decided to make a set of small bonnet hoods, one of which can be quickly attached to each mic.  I put together the elements of this system a couple years back but haven't needed it so never got around to actually using it or even fully setting it up until now.

The idea is to basically emulate the "duck back" device which attaches to the top of a wind-blimp providing rain protection.  My simple variation on it consists of a piece of flexible plastic filter mat with umbrella fabric glued to one side.  The filter material provides the structure and breaks up and disperses rain drop energy.  The umbrella fabric on the underside affixed to it with spray-glue provides a water-tight barrier.  In use, that flat disk is formed into a taco-shaped bonnet hood, secured directly to the windscreen with a zip tie - two zips used on the shotgun mic.  The zip tie isn't made overly tight, just tight enough to secure it from wind.  The hood simply slips in and out under the zip tie - both get reused.  Rain trickles through and drips off the edges of the bonnet, and the locking part of the zip tie is oriented downward forming a drip point.  The whole system accommodating all 7 microphone positions fits into a gallon sized zip lock bag.
 
First photos of just the center stereo-shotgun.  These were taken last weekend while getting ready for last Sunday's fest.  No rain threat for that one so the new rain protection system stayed in the car.  I just set it up in the driveway the day prior to take these photos to share here. 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2025, 08:19:45 PM »
I took the full system with me to the fest but only deployed it on the center AT stereo shotgun when rain threatened the final day, as I needed to get running quickly and that's the only mic in the array which I'm not certain can handle getting wet and recover gracefully.  So the photos of it in use below at the fest show only the center one on the shotgun mic.  Plan was to deploy on all other mics at the conclusion of the set if necessary. Fortunately the rain threat passed.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2025, 08:29:00 PM »
Here's the complete setup fully deployed, with detail shots of one of the smaller sized Movos which is the size typically used by most tapers so may be suitable for other folks here.  Note the even smaller ones out on on the 4061s at the far ends, however they weigh down the telescopic antennas a bit to much for my liking and create extra windage out there, so not sure I'd keep the omnis fully extended with those in use.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2025, 08:33:24 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline VibrationOfLife

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #154 on: April 09, 2025, 12:05:01 AM »
I dig the hose clamp idea.  I wonder if some narrow cam straps could replace the zip ties for security and longevity?  https://rollercam.com/products/0-75-straight-end

Offline phil_er_up

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #155 on: April 09, 2025, 08:30:49 AM »
Great ideas GB. Are the neoprene disks glued to the back of the movo or do you just press them against the movo to get a secure fit?

Like the rain protection idea too.
Everyday is a gift. Enjoy each one!
Forward motion bring positive results.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #156 on: April 09, 2025, 09:19:42 AM »
Yes, +T for the rain protection concept and documenting/sharing your idea. I dig it.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #157 on: April 09, 2025, 10:18:56 AM »
Thanks!

Along with the relative ease of set up I really like the reduced windage and visual profile of the rain system compared to an umbrella.  Will see how well it works once it really rains.  May break out the hose next weekend.  Not mentioned above is that I applied a Never-Wet hydrophobic treatment to both sides of the bonnets so water beads off quickly.  Not sure if that's really needed but thinking it may help keep the filter material from holding water due to surface tension and getting heavy.  I may just just forgo using the tiny bonnets on the omnis as long as the sound doesn't change as their small windscreens get saturated.  In previous tests the hydrophobic treatment applied directly to the windscreens rejected moisture and indirect water spray, but still allowed direct droplet hits penetrate, which is what lead me to putting the bonnets on top.

A very small cam strap attaching the hose-clamps to the tubing could work but would need to be just 1/4" wide, and the simple zip tie connection is working very well.  I keep extras in the bag, but doubt I'll need them as replacements. I did need to reinforce the section of telescopic tubing that the tie wraps around by sliding a length of 3/8" diameter stainless steel hydraulic piping with a significantly heavier wall thickness over it in order to prevent the thin-walled telescopic tube from being crushed/bent when the zip tie is cinched down tight.  It's a relatively small (normal sized?) 1/4" wide zip tie that once in place just remains locked down as tight as I could get it with a pair of pliers and doesn't require further readjustment.  The cool part is how the fig-8 wrapping holds the curved surface of the hose-clamp's adjustable screw housing against the telescopic tube in such a way that the length of the tie needn't change when rotating the mic/windscreen assembly vertically and horizontally within a useful range.  Heat-shrink applied over both tubing and hose-clamp to form a nice scuff-resistant matt black surface that also provides the right amount of friction to hold the desired angle.  I intended to secondarily incorporate a way of sliding the connection along the bar, so that the spacing between the pair can be altered along with angle.  Didn't get that far - the friction of the heat shrink which is needed to keep the forward cantilevered windscreen from drooping vertically doesn't also allow for sliding along the length the tube.  Practically, arranging for that further improvement may require some sort of little spring clamp in place of the zip-tie, perhaps a 3d printed hinge/clamp thing - squeeze to adjust and when released it grabs the tube and locks in place.

Currently the neoprene disks are simply pressed against the back of the Movos (rubber to rubber) and held in place by friction on the gooseneck and or support tube.  The disks don't lay perfectly flat, so I oriented them as needed to achieve the best seal.  The original idea was to try and work the disk though the hole in the back of the Movo so the disc is tightly sandwiched between the rubber cuff and foam, but that proved too difficult to do with the mic already in place.  Also tried carefully inserting the mic (don't want to crush the tiny interference tube grid) into the windscreen after curler foam and disk had been installed , but its impossible to keep the small hole though the curler foam insert lined up with the small hole in the disk, which inevitably results in the curler foam getting mashed inside as the mic is inserted rather than the mic sliding into it.  So far the simple press-against fit has worked better and more consistently than gaffer tape. If I do get wind leakage I'll probably look into sealing it using double-stick tape or a smear of sealant between the two depending on what sticks to the rubber.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2025, 01:02:45 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #158 on: April 09, 2025, 10:54:55 AM »
My recording of Trey from Tuesday was omt4ish.  4018as out wide, pointing at the outside of the stack, 4015gs DINa in the middle, on a single wide bar.  I mixed the 4018s -6db down from the 4015s

https://archive.org/details/ta-20250401_202504

I also uploaded the separate 4015gs and 4018 tracks

Enjoyed listening to this right nice sounding recording last night! Very cool to be able to compare the mix and separate mic pairs, EQing each to be as close as possible..  and after doing that it was encouraging to find I still preferred your mix over either pair on its own.  Great performance, room, audience, and recording.  Stars aligned on that one.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Online grawk

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #159 on: April 09, 2025, 10:58:53 AM »
I always want to share each source separately to give back because that’s a huge part of how I learned.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #160 on: April 11, 2025, 05:14:14 PM »
^ Thanks for that.  Hard for me to imagine a signal path I'd prefer over that one!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Online grawk

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #161 on: April 11, 2025, 05:15:59 PM »
My next step is adding the ad8+ so I can add the senn ambeo vr to the mix.

Offline ejl6495

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #162 on: April 17, 2025, 03:55:28 PM »
OMT’ers,

I recently got 2 really clean pulls at The Brothers MSG show. I’m super happy with the audio they are probably 2 of my best OMT pulls I deviated a little bit from the OMT6 in Gutbucket’s OMT guide and ran the following:

Channels 1 & 2: B9 Audio C5F 14" Spread pointed straight ahead> nbob actives > baby nbox > 3.5 mm TRRS stereo breakout to dual left / right XLR male >

Channels 3 & 4: AT3031 7" spread PAS>

Channels 5 & 6: AKG c414 XLII Hypercardioid Mid + Figure 8 Side set 9" in front of other 2 pairs
Zoom f6 32 Bit Float

The results:

2025-04-15: https://archive.org/details/brothers-2025-04-15t-17 (8’ high in soundboard cage)

2025-04-16: https://archive.org/details/thebrothers2025-04-16t24/thebrothers2025-04-16t05.flac 14’ high top of soundboard cage (significantly higher than night prior where I was going from soundboard inner area floor)

Slight EQ on both nights in post.

I really love how these sound, I find them a little bit muddier than the room was last night. Is there anything I can do mix wise to boost the clarity and damper the mud a little bit? I really have no clue what I’m doing with mid/side I’ve run this arrangement a few times now and feel I’m improving on my mixes each time but could benefit from some guidance for sure.

Online grawk

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #163 on: April 17, 2025, 04:20:29 PM »
Listen to each source separately. Adjust the mid side until it’s got the clarity you want for the base of the mix.

Create a stereo track from each source and save them separately. Then open a new session with all 3 stereo mixes and adjust the levels on each until you think it sounds best.

Offline ejl6495

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 4
« Reply #164 on: April 17, 2025, 05:16:51 PM »
Listen to each source separately. Adjust the mid side until it’s got the clarity you want for the base of the mix.

Create a stereo track from each source and save them separately. Then open a new session with all 3 stereo mixes and adjust the levels on each until you think it sounds best.

This is super interesting way of tackling it I feel like I’ve been taking the opposite approach. I’ve been leaving my mid as is, bringing my side down low and then adding in the hypers and then the cards. I build houses so I was thinking of it in that regard; Foundation > structure/ guts > finishes.

I’m gonna take a stab at it the way you mentioned, maybe I’ll like my results better. Prefab home style

 

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