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Author Topic: XLR -> TRS not working  (Read 1299 times)

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Offline VibrationOfLife

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XLR -> TRS not working
« on: May 31, 2024, 12:33:47 AM »
I bought a set of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C1YJGDTR?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

But my recorder with combo jacks does not recognize any signal from my mics.  Works fine on all jacks with straight xlr -> xlr.

Any speculation as to why?

Offline breakonthru

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2024, 12:50:34 AM »
need more info as to what mics and which recorder

Offline VibrationOfLife

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2024, 12:51:38 AM »
LA CM4's and Tascam Portacapture X8

Offline Niels

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2024, 01:31:33 AM »
LA CM4's and Tascam Portacapture X8
I was under the impression that manufactures will avoid delivering P48 through TRS due to the risk of "shorting" when inserting the plug. What does the Tascam documentation say?
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Offline VibrationOfLife

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2024, 02:58:29 AM »
LA CM4's and Tascam Portacapture X8
I was under the impression that manufactures will avoid delivering P48 through TRS due to the risk of "shorting" when inserting the plug. What does the Tascam documentation say?

There is nothing in the manual indicating that it won't deliver P48 or any voltage through the TRS of the combi, but good idea, I never thought to check that.  Thanks.

Even though it is not in the manual, I guess even though I'm using balanced cables, phantom and TRS don't mix nicely sometimes and maybe Tascam disabled it by default but didn't mention it.  I'll stick with straight XLR for the mics, was just looking to save some cable when running from mixer boards with typically TRS outs or my mics and not have to carry another whole set around if I can't get a mixer feed and need to set up mics.

Edit:
Quote
Phantom power travels down one of the Pins of an XLR connector and only supplied into that type of connector - so using a 1/4" connector - be it TS or TRS won't carry the Phantom Power - even in one of those jacks that allows you to plug in either a 1/4" or XLR - the ones that accept either. The device just doesn't supply it to anything but an XLR connector (note, you can make a TRS carry phantom power but no one does because when you plug or unplug the connector, the Tip passes by where the Shield makes contact once plugged in and where the Ring makes contact once plugged in and makes contact with those along the way, which would cause things we don't want).

I'll leave this thread up in case someone makes the same ignorant mistake.  Thanks for sending me down the right road.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 03:25:14 AM by VibrationOfLife »

Offline kuba e

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2024, 07:51:40 AM »
I have an old good Tascam dr680 and it provides phantom via TSR. I am sure of this because I use it (channels 5 and 6 provides phantom and have only TSR connections, probably due to space). I think they have some kind of short circuit treatment when connecting the connectors.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 07:57:07 AM by kuba e »

Offline commongrounder

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2024, 10:00:06 AM »
I own a Tascam Portacapture X8. The 1/4” TRS input on the combo jacks is designed for line input only. No phantom is present when using this part of the jack. You can see this if you study the input section in the block diagram for the X8:
https://manual.tascam.jp/portacapture_x8/rm/en/portacapturex8_mixer_block_revd.pdf

Offline breakonthru

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2024, 10:10:49 AM »
I have an old good Tascam dr680 and it provides phantom via TSR. I am sure of this because I use it (channels 5 and 6 provides phantom and have only TSR connections, probably due to space). I think they have some kind of short circuit treatment when connecting the connectors.
I have yet to see a manufacturer that recommends hot plugging mics with P 48 on. Usually if they specify, it’s connect the  mics and then power them up. In a correctly wired TRS pin two is the tip and that’s where any voltage would go so it’s not like you’re risking sending voltage down the wrong pin. I would guess it’s more likely that TRS is not commonly used for phantom and they don’t want to risk sending power to other equipment on the other end.

Online Ronmac

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2024, 10:19:09 AM »
Phantom power is applied to both pins 2 and 3 of an XLR connector.

Excerpt below from: https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/blog/phantom-power-explained-in-simple-language/


Quote
WHAT IS PHANTOM POWER?
Phantom power is voltage between 12 and 48 volts. It’s DC voltage sent through the microphone cable. In the case of an XLR cable, the power is carried by pins 2 and 3. Pin 1 is used for earthing.
In theory, phantom power can also be generated by other energy sources, such as a battery. In most cases, however, a mixing console, microphone pre-amp or audio interface transmits the phantom power via the XLR cable or stereo jack. This is a significantly more reliable method than the use of a battery.

Offline breakonthru

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2024, 10:50:06 AM »
my bad. this explains it more clearly.

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/know-the-basics-about-phantom-power

still pin 1 is sleeve so youre not grounding 48V by plugging or unplugging, however, sending 48V up one leg of a balanced connection might have negative consequences.

even with xlrs i make sure everything is connected before turning on p48, tho i bet most modern equipment has some safeguards, why risk it?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: XLR -> TRS not working
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2024, 01:15:52 PM »
^ That, for best practice.

Anecdotal experience with this and Tascam DR680 -  I always try to be careful to turn off phantom (or simply the entire recorder) before plugging/unplugging mics to any recorder, and was always especially careful when doing so with phantom powered mics into the DR680's ch5/6 TRS-only inputs.  That said, because the TRS inputs are non-locking, on rare occasion the right angle TRS adapters I used into those inputs would become partly unplugged and would need re-seating.  Other than that channel temporarily cutting out until the connector was re-seated, I fortunately never had a problem with the recorder or mics when that did happen.
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