Topic: Equipment for home recording

[Billy Mumphrey]

If I'm also recording her live shows through this, I would assume Streaming Mode would be the way to go?

Assuming it doesn't affect the mixing of her live show, you would use Recording Mode and get a multitrack of her live performance (assuming you are up to mixing it in post). Definitely find out through research or testing if Recording Mode has any effect on her live mix.

If you used Streaming Mode, the stereo recording made via USB would probably be very vocal heavy and you would not be able to change the mix.

[Dan33185]

If I'm also recording her live shows through this, I would assume Streaming Mode would be the way to go?

Assuming it doesn't affect the mixing of her live show, you would use Recording Mode and get a multitrack of her live performance (assuming you are up to mixing it in post). Definitely find out through research or testing if Recording Mode has any effect on her live mix.

If you used Streaming Mode, the stereo recording made via USB would probably be very vocal heavy and you would not be able to change the mix.

I am still in the process of learning that, but I would definitely prefer that. So, if I just use the 2 outputs on the top right, I should get a multitrack recording of it?

[Billy Mumphrey]

So, if I just use the 2 outputs on the top right, I should get a multitrack recording of it?

No, the 2 outputs on the top right (MAIN L and MAIN R) are a sum, or a mix, of all of the inputs (1, 2, 3, 4). During live shows, she would use these outputs to send a stereo mix to the PA or speakers.

Technically this a 4 channel mixer, and the only way to get a multichannel recording is connecting a computer via usb cable in "Recording Mode". This is a pretty advanced recording technique, prepare for a steep learning curve. That's not to mention the post-production process; mixing and mastering is just as (if not more) daunting. I've always loved learning new techniques and ways of doing things so I don't want to discourage you. I wish you luck!

[SMsound]

Advice:  Find a singer/songwriter recording on YouTube where you like their sound. Copy their setup.

Start with OurVinyl Sessions if you're not sure where to start. They make tapes in many 'like a home' locations (including outside) and run a variety of mics on solo voice/guitar.

For example, I think this tape of Tyler Childers is a better recording than pretty much any of his other (many) recordings, and he works with the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QzcrflqDCg

That tape is just an SM7B on voice, a stereo (2-channel) XY mic on guitar a few inches above maybe the 8th fret (?), and he's plugged in so assume guitar gets an input too (total of 4 inputs). Can be replicated with a very cheap setup. Just watch out for fake SM7B's, as most on Ebay used are fake Alibaba.com copies that don't sound great.

[Dan33185]

Advice:  Find a singer/songwriter recording on YouTube where you like their sound. Copy their setup.

Start with OurVinyl Sessions if you're not sure where to start. They make tapes in many 'like a home' locations (including outside) and run a variety of mics on solo voice/guitar.

For example, I think this tape of Tyler Childers is a better recording than pretty much any of his other (many) recordings, and he works with the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QzcrflqDCg

That tape is just an SM7B on voice, a stereo (2-channel) XY mic on guitar a few inches above maybe the 8th fret (?), and he's plugged in so assume guitar gets an input too (total of 4 inputs). Can be replicated with a very cheap setup. Just watch out for fake SM7B's, as most on Ebay used are fake Alibaba.com copies that don't sound great.

That's exactly the sound I'm hoping to get (and the 4 input setup I am envisioning), it won't necessarily be the quality you can get at a high end studio, but definitely good enough for distributing if she wants to, and it won't cost her anything but her time. Thanks for the link, makes it easier to visualize what I'm going for.

[SMsound]

Advice:  Find a singer/songwriter recording on YouTube where you like their sound. Copy their setup.

Start with OurVinyl Sessions if you're not sure where to start. They make tapes in many 'like a home' locations (including outside) and run a variety of mics on solo voice/guitar.

For example, I think this tape of Tyler Childers is a better recording than pretty much any of his other (many) recordings, and he works with the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QzcrflqDCg

That tape is just an SM7B on voice, a stereo (2-channel) XY mic on guitar a few inches above maybe the 8th fret (?), and he's plugged in so assume guitar gets an input too (total of 4 inputs). Can be replicated with a very cheap setup. Just watch out for fake SM7B's, as most on Ebay used are fake Alibaba.com copies that don't sound great.

That's exactly the sound I'm hoping to get (and the 4 input setup I am envisioning), it won't necessarily be the quality you can get at a high end studio, but definitely good enough for distributing if she wants to, and it won't cost her anything but her time. Thanks for the link, makes it easier to visualize what I'm going for.

Nice. As you know, pay a lot of attention to the exact setup locations, which probably matter more than the mics (although in this case SM7B does have a pretty unique sound). Usually, singers are told to eat the SM7B and get super close. For some reason, Tyler doesn't do that in this video. And it sounds amazing.

Same with the XY mic on his guitar. Not sure how much of that they put in the mix, but it's pretty high up and also close to the guitar opening.

So, unusual mic placements that would usually be recommended against, yet killer sound (in my opinion). Also, it looks to me like they're in a big untreated wooden room, with some treatment visible (panels and stuff), and a bunch of rugs on the floor to try and kill the floor reflections.

Room is going to matter a ton (more than mics, probably less than mic setup distances). Have a nice big living room, or a friend who does, or a buddy with stage access?

[rocksuitcase]

re the Xy mic near the guitar opening:
I worked for Mark Fitzgerald who was a great mic tech, FOH guy for Heart and others (also great dude and mentor).
He would often, during acoustic studio sessions or all acoustic stage setups mic an acoustic guitar this way. In studio he would use two Beyer m160's in a crossed pattern (two fig 8's X'Y) very close to the mic hole but ABOVE the fingers.
Onstage, he would use two cardioids x-y close to the hole but beside and under the fingers.
SMsound is right- placement here can make a huge difference

[rowjimmy]

Mic placement on a guitar is dealer's choice.
There's plenty of "right" ways to do it and even more "wrong" ways.
The way the player picks or strums will impact the sound of some placements. The type of guitar will as well. The room and mic selection too.

The real trick is to gather up a few ideas and try several, listening back carefully, until you land on something that works given all of the variables.

Then, the next time, start with what worked and be willing to make adjustments as needed.
If it sounds good, roll tape.

[Dan33185]

So, at a show on Friday Josie's (the singer I am referring to) mixer gave out on her, and she ended up buying a new one today. She went with the Behringer FLOW 8, which looks like it has the ability to connect via USB to a computer. So, what I'm wondering is, am I understanding the specs right that I could run everything I want to do (vocal mic, guitar, and 2 external mics to capture the guitar in a more ambient way) through the 4 XLR inputs on the top left, and run the USB to my computer and record 4 separate tracks with Reaper? Or is that too good to be true?

I'm running in to issues trying to record off this mixer. The first attempt gave me great vocals but very low guitar sound. I posted on the Behringer message board about this and got a few ideas. Attempted to record again last night and got the opposite problem, great guitar but vocals are way down in the mix. I am able to rebalance pretty decently in iZotope, but I'd obviously rather get it right without having to do that every time. I am running from the "Phones" output using this with my 1/4" cables > my recorder:



She has her guitar plugged in to "6R", and her mic plugged in to "1" (top left). We tried to set up "Monitor Send 1" through the app on her phone but got no sound that way at all. I am at a loss at this point...it wouldn't be the recorder causing an issue, would it? They basically all serve the same function...I'm not sure what other settings she can change to give me a balanced mixed.

[Gutbucket]

Don't use this..

(which looks to be a 2x mono mini-jack > 1/4" TRS stereo adapter) ..into a balanced input on the recorder, if that's what you are describing.

Two options:
1) Record directly to the computer. Connect the mixer to the computer via USB.  Connect your mics to the mixer's XLR inputs and plug the guitar into the "6R" 1/4" input as before. Record each of the inputs to separate tracks in whatever recording software you are using. After recording, mix on the computer.

2) Record directly to the recorder. Plug your mics directly into the recorder's XLR inputs.  Plug the guitar into the mixer and run an XLR cable between one of the mixers main outs to the recorder.  You can use the headphone out instead if that's the only cable you have.  You can run the output from the mixer into the non-XLR inputs on the recorder if all the XLR inputs are being used by your mics. After recording, transfer the resulting individual tracks to the computer and mix there.  This is essentially using the mixer as a "direct box" between the guitar and recorder.

[Melanie]

Don't use this..

(which looks to be a 2x mono mini-jack > 1/4" TRS stereo adapter) ..into a balanced input on the recorder, if that's what you are describing.

Two options:
1) Record directly to the computer. Connect the mixer to the computer via USB.  Connect your mics to the mixer's XLR inputs and plug the guitar into the "6R" 1/4" input as before. Record each of the inputs to separate tracks in whatever recording software you are using. After recording, mix on the computer.

2) Record directly to the recorder. Plug your mics directly into the recorder's XLR inputs.  Plug the guitar into the mixer and run an XLR cable between one of the mixers main outs to the recorder.  You can use the headphone out instead if that's the only cable you have.  You can run the output from the mixer into the non-XLR inputs on the recorder if all the XLR inputs are being used by your mics. After recording, transfer the resulting individual tracks to the computer and mix there.  This is essentially using the mixer as a "direct box" between the guitar and recorder.

Plug looks like a splitter for 1/8 stereo. I believe that it's not mono. You can run two headphones from one plug. 1/4 inch plug is two channels. Bob

[Gutbucket]

Could be.  Easy enough to find out by checking with a multimeter. Either way, probably not what it wanted.  The details of the connection matter but are unclear.

[Dan33185]

Don't use this..

(which looks to be a 2x mono mini-jack > 1/4" TRS stereo adapter) ..into a balanced input on the recorder, if that's what you are describing.

Two options:
1) Record directly to the computer. Connect the mixer to the computer via USB.  Connect your mics to the mixer's XLR inputs and plug the guitar into the "6R" 1/4" input as before. Record each of the inputs to separate tracks in whatever recording software you are using. After recording, mix on the computer.

2) Record directly to the recorder. Plug your mics directly into the recorder's XLR inputs.  Plug the guitar into the mixer and run an XLR cable between one of the mixers main outs to the recorder.  You can use the headphone out instead if that's the only cable you have.  You can run the output from the mixer into the non-XLR inputs on the recorder if all the XLR inputs are being used by your mics. After recording, transfer the resulting individual tracks to the computer and mix there.  This is essentially using the mixer as a "direct box" between the guitar and recorder.

Sorry, should have specified this is for recording her live shows at the moment (didn't think it was worth starting a new thread for this question), so plugging directly in to the recorder isn't an option for that. The adapter pictured above is this one:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Livewire/Essential-Headphone-Splitter-1-4-TRS-Male-to-Dual-1-4-TRS-Female-1500000013641.gc

[Gutbucket]

So the XLR main outs are being used to feed the PA?

Check how the headphone and monitor out routing is set in the mixer.   If set properly you should be able to use either out to the recorder.  If using a patch cable between the mixer and recorder that has a male stereo mini-plug on each end, the adapter shown above can be used to adapt the 1/4" stereo headphone out.  Just use one of the two minijacks and leave the other one disconnected.

From a quick look at the block diagram for the mixer it appears that each of the two 1/4" monitor outs are balanced mono, and can be set to either duplicate the XLR main outs, or provide separate monitor mixes.  To use them for recording you'll either need two 1/4" patch cables (balanced or unbalanced) feeding separate channels on the recorder, or a 'Y' adapter that has two 1/4" mono TS plugs on the mixer side and a stereo mini plug on the recorder side.. if going into a stereo minijack input.

[Dan33185]

So the XLR main outs are being used to feed the PA?- Yes, she has a portable speaker she connects this to.

Check how the headphone and monitor out routing is set in the mixer.   If set properly you should be able to use either out to the recorder.  If using a patch cable between the mixer and recorder that has a male stereo mini-plug on each end, the adapter shown above can be used to adapt the 1/4" stereo headphone out.  Just use one of the two minijacks and leave the other one disconnected.- That's what I thought as well, but every configuration we've tried has given me issues (good guitar levels but low vocals, or good vocals but low guitar, etc.). The last part though...so use the adapter above, but only use one of the outs to my recorder? Would it be any different than just using the headphone out directly to my recorder with just one cable? I'm assuming that would just be mono then?

From a quick look at the block diagram for the mixer it appears that each of the two 1/4" monitor outs are balanced mono, and can be set to either duplicate the XLR main outs, or provide separate monitor mixes.  To use them for recording you'll either need two 1/4" patch cables (balanced or unbalanced) feeding separate channels on the recorder, or a 'Y' adapter that has two 1/4" mono TS plugs on the mixer side and a stereo mini plug on the recorder side.. if going into a stereo minijack input.- So would something like this work better (TS vs. the TRS one I have now?)