Topic: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder.

[HealthCov Chris]

I'll be keeping my eye out for those Mixpre-3's ya'll are getting rid of!

[adrianb]

I'll be keeping my eye out for those Mixpre-3's ya'll are getting rid of!

For a brief moment I was thinking I would replace mine with the Tascam FR-AV2 because there are a few things about my Mixpre-3 II that I don’t like:

The battery life
Only 2.5v PIP
The fact that plugging in external 3.5mm microphones doesn’t use the Kashmir preamps
It’s a bit of a pain to change the input to AUX

I was thinking about getting the Earsight PIP/XLR Adapter for €45 which would have solved the last three issues, but now thinking of getting the AV2 in addition to the Mixpre-3 and using it mainly as a dedicated 3.5mm microphone recorder and for stealth.

What the Mixpre-3 does have is fantastic preamps, and paired with my Sennheiser MKH8040 mics I have made some of my favourite ambient recordings. Also the form factor of the Mixpre-3 with mounting points top and bottom is very useful.

If my Mixpre-3 II is ever to find its way into the classifieds the Tascam AV2 is going to have to produce low noise recordings just as good. I doubt that will happen but look forward to comparisons.

[Kyle K]

hm, looks like I'll have another ticket for TASCAM.

What's odd is I didn't notice this in my initial battery tests, I could've sworn I normalized the split tracks during that process but maybe not.

What's attached here is zoomed in waveform at the end of the automatic file split. This is present in both devices I was using. Audible as a tiny "pop" of distortion, normalizes to -INF. When it's simply cut out it is barely noticeable in the recording, but still, should not be occurring.

[TheJez]

hm, looks like I'll have another ticket for TASCAM.

What's odd is I didn't notice this in my initial battery tests, I could've sworn I normalized the split tracks during that process but maybe not.

What's attached here is zoomed in waveform at the end of the automatic file split. This is present in both devices I was using. Audible as a tiny "pop" of distortion, normalizes to -INF. When it's simply cut out it is barely noticeable in the recording, but still, should not be occurring.

What software are you using? Could it be non-sample data at the end of the file being interpreted as samples?
I will check my test recording tomorrow.

How do you report issues to TASCAM? I’m having major problems changing the record level in the app…

[TheJez]

hm, looks like I'll have another ticket for TASCAM.

What's odd is I didn't notice this in my initial battery tests, I could've sworn I normalized the split tracks during that process but maybe not.

What's attached here is zoomed in waveform at the end of the automatic file split. This is present in both devices I was using. Audible as a tiny "pop" of distortion, normalizes to -INF. When it's simply cut out it is barely noticeable in the recording, but still, should not be occurring.

You're on to something. See attachment for an automatic file split on my recorder after in Adobe Audition. It seems a new file always starts from silence. Not a seemless transition as one would expect.
Recorder FW 1.01...
I also noticed way more markers than expected when enabling 'time marker' every 10 minutes, e.g. 83 markers at 0:00:00.000...

[rastasean]

First findings:
- The USB file transfer speed is rather disappointing (as with most recorders): Just about 5.5MB/s. Getting your recording off the device this way will take forever. When the same microSD card is put in an El Cheapo USB3 hub with card reader, I get 30MB/s.

Thanks for reporting your findings. How easy is it for you change the levels during recording?

Regarding the transfer speed - this is something I was wondering about when the specs were posted before the release.
The recorder has USB-C but only USB 2.0 transfer speeds. I don't understand that decision by Tascam...

[TheJez]

First findings:
- The USB file transfer speed is rather disappointing (as with most recorders): Just about 5.5MB/s. Getting your recording off the device this way will take forever. When the same microSD card is put in an El Cheapo USB3 hub with card reader, I get 30MB/s.

Thanks for reporting your findings. How easy is it for you change the levels during recording?

Ehm, well, it's not easy as with dedicated buttons, obviously. Assuming you enabled 'Gang', which links the record level of channel 1 and 2, you need to do this: Press Input button (F3) -> Enter (F4) to select Channel 1. Then Press F2 or F3 to decrease/increase the record level, then press Enter (F4) when done and Home (F1) to return to the Home screen.
However: When recording in 32bit float, it doesn't make any sense to change the record level while recording. The analog part is set to a fixed gain, and any change in record level is handled in the digital domain which could/should/very likely will be done in post anyway. It will only complicate things in post if you'd change the record level during recording, as it will affect the amplitude of the samples stored in the file. The only reasons I could think of are a) you may get better levels when playing back the recording from the device or b) the vu-meters will show the input better scaled if you like that. In my use cases, neither seem a valid reason to change the levels while recording, but this may be different for others. I'd try to set the levels sort of best-guess right before hitting 'record', and then I'll never tocuh it even when the levels are very low or even clipping. Both will be fixed during post without quality loss thanks to the dual-ADC and 32bit float recording.

One additon: When using the App (at least on iPhone), the record level control is rather cumbersome. When 'gang' is not enabled, and then changing the level on channel 1, then channel 2 often suddenly drops to 1dB (in range of 0..60dB)!! And vice versa (channel 1 dropping to 1dB when controlling channel 2 record level). When 'gang' is enabled, controlling isn't very smooth either. E.g. when sliding from 20 to 30dB, the sliders will lag behind and go from 20 to 30 over a couple of seconds, and while doing so occasionally drop to 1dB for brief moments. These hickups are not just visual, but really affect the recording. I guess another reason not to change record level while recording 

[TheJez]

First findings:
- The USB file transfer speed is rather disappointing (as with most recorders): Just about 5.5MB/s. Getting your recording off the device this way will take forever. When the same microSD card is put in an El Cheapo USB3 hub with card reader, I get 30MB/s.

Regarding the transfer speed - this is something I was wondering about when the specs were posted before the release.
The recorder has USB-C but only USB 2.0 transfer speeds. I don't understand that decision by Tascam...

Well, as someone with a bit of experience in consumer electronics, I can imagine a bit what's going on. The USB interface on this device is not a dedicated disk interface. It can act in different modes, in this case as a disk interface and as a sound card. The choice between the two modes and the associated processing is done in the software, which means it is software that is 'glueing' the microSD card to the USB bus when the device is set to 'SDCard Reader Mode'. Each block read/written is therefor likely passed through the software, which will make it slower than more hardware-oriented solutions. It's a real pitty, especially since the microSD 'door' on the device is flimsy...
I think most recorders will act this way.

[TheJez]

I also noticed way more markers than expected when enabling 'time marker' every 10 minutes, e.g. 83 markers at 0:00:00.000...

It seems that each file gets ~100 markers at 00:00:00.000 'for free' right from the start. It seems they are filled in during recording, e.g. with the time marks, manual marks or the 'peak mark'.
I can imagine they are doing it this way, as the markers are stored at the start of a WAV file. They just claim space for ~100 markers at the moment a file is created and then start appending the samples to it. If a marker must be stored, they just update an existing 00:00:00.000 marker with the right timestamp and type/name.
Maybe the number of claimed markers depend on the sample rate, I haven't tested that.

[TheJez]

Got mine yesterday. Also bought and charged a bunch of Ikea Ladda 2450mAh batteries as these get good reviews. Also got a SanDisk Extreme Pro microSDHC card of 32GB, rated 90MB/s write and 100MB/s read speed.
First findings:
- The USB file transfer speed is rather disappointing (as with most recorders): Just about 5.5MB/s. Getting your recording off the device this way will take forever. When the same microSD card is put in an El Cheapo USB3 hub with card reader, I get 30MB/s.
- The rubber microSD-card 'door' feels rather flimsy. Will probably come off after a couple of years unless you'll never use it.

Did a duration test with freshly charged Ladda batteries, 48kHz 32bit float, +5V PIP for a pair of Clippy microphones through the EXT input, using display setting as low as possible:
- Auto power save: OFF
- Power save mode: OFF
- Backlight: OFF
- Brightness: LOW
- Indicators: ALL OFF
- Contrast: as low as possible
This gave me a rather dark but still readable display, and... A whopping 9:13 of recording time!!
But:... After checking the recorder about 1.5h into the test, I found that the VU meters of both input and output had frozen in time. The recording time was still running, I could still add markers and change the headphone output volume (both confirmed on the display) and after the test I verified that it had been recording the whole time. This partly freezing display (or more likely crashed VU metering software) is not so good...

After putting in new batteries and switching on the device, the VU meters are fine agian. Now repeating the test with display settings as high as possible, just curious what will come out of that and if the VU meters will freeze again...

Result of repeated test with same settings, except that all display settings are now set as high as possible: 7:34 recording time. So the display is a power-hungry thing, something to consider especially when also using phantom power... Oh, and no freezing VU-meters this time...

[rastasean]

First findings:
- The USB file transfer speed is rather disappointing (as with most recorders): Just about 5.5MB/s. Getting your recording off the device this way will take forever. When the same microSD card is put in an El Cheapo USB3 hub with card reader, I get 30MB/s.

Thanks for reporting your findings. How easy is it for you change the levels during recording?

When recording in 32bit float, it doesn't make any sense to change the record level while recording. The analog part is set to a fixed gain, and any change in record level is handled in the digital domain which could/should/very likely will be done in post anyway.

My idea and hope was to be able to use the recorder as a two channel mixer. If you're interviewing two people on two separate mics on channels 1 and 2, you could lower the levels during recording to prevent the need to do so much post work. However, it seems to be a set it and work it in post mentality. There is always the possibility of putting a small mixer between the recorder and the mics, though.

There are not many two track recorders that actually let you adjust individual levels. The Fostex FR-2LE comes to mind, of course that's a legacy machine these days and records to CF cards!

[rastasean]

One additon: When using the App (at least on iPhone), the record level control is rather cumbersome. When 'gang' is not enabled, and then changing the level on channel 1, then channel 2 often suddenly drops to 1dB (in range of 0..60dB)!! And vice versa (channel 1 dropping to 1dB when controlling channel 2 record level). When 'gang' is enabled, controlling isn't very smooth either. E.g. when sliding from 20 to 30dB, the sliders will lag behind and go from 20 to 30 over a couple of seconds, and while doing so occasionally drop to 1dB for brief moments. These hickups are not just visual, but really affect the recording. I guess another reason not to change record level while recording 

Are you going to report this to tascam to see if it can be improved?

[TheJez]

First findings:
- The USB file transfer speed is rather disappointing (as with most recorders): Just about 5.5MB/s. Getting your recording off the device this way will take forever. When the same microSD card is put in an El Cheapo USB3 hub with card reader, I get 30MB/s.

Thanks for reporting your findings. How easy is it for you change the levels during recording?

When recording in 32bit float, it doesn't make any sense to change the record level while recording. The analog part is set to a fixed gain, and any change in record level is handled in the digital domain which could/should/very likely will be done in post anyway.

My idea and hope was to be able to use the recorder as a two channel mixer. If you're interviewing two people on two separate mics on channels 1 and 2, you could lower the levels during recording to prevent the need to do so much post work. However, it seems to be a set it and work it in post mentality. There is always the possibility of putting a small mixer between the recorder and the mics, though.

There are not many two track recorders that actually let you adjust individual levels. The Fostex FR-2LE comes to mind, of course that's a legacy machine these days and records to CF cards!

Oh, that’s absolutely possible! If you disable the ‘gang’ option, you can set the record level for each channel individually! No need for external mixer…

[TheJez]

One additon: When using the App (at least on iPhone), the record level control is rather cumbersome. When 'gang' is not enabled, and then changing the level on channel 1, then channel 2 often suddenly drops to 1dB (in range of 0..60dB)!! And vice versa (channel 1 dropping to 1dB when controlling channel 2 record level). When 'gang' is enabled, controlling isn't very smooth either. E.g. when sliding from 20 to 30dB, the sliders will lag behind and go from 20 to 30 over a couple of seconds, and while doing so occasionally drop to 1dB for brief moments. These hickups are not just visual, but really affect the recording. I guess another reason not to change record level while recording 

Are you going to report this to tascam to see if it can be improved?

That is my intention. I’ll try to figure out tomorrow how to do that. Any suggestions?

[Kyle K]

hm, looks like I'll have another ticket for TASCAM.

What's odd is I didn't notice this in my initial battery tests, I could've sworn I normalized the split tracks during that process but maybe not.

What's attached here is zoomed in waveform at the end of the automatic file split. This is present in both devices I was using. Audible as a tiny "pop" of distortion, normalizes to -INF. When it's simply cut out it is barely noticeable in the recording, but still, should not be occurring.

You're on to something. See attachment for an automatic file split on my recorder after in Adobe Audition. It seems a new file always starts from silence. Not a seemless transition as one would expect.
Recorder FW 1.01...
I also noticed way more markers than expected when enabling 'time marker' every 10 minutes, e.g. 83 markers at 0:00:00.000...

Hmm, so you do not see distortion at the end of the file(s)? Interesting. Either way it doesn't seem perfectly smooth as would be preferable of course.

I went through their support site:

https://tascam.com/us/support/contact

There is an icon that opens a page which allows you to select device model, FR-AV2 is on the list. Then it will open a ticket with their support team. I work in product development so I have experience 'speaking their language', just a matter of being both succinct and comprehensive (where relevant) with extremely clear steps to reproduce, and boiling it down to one specific question if possible.