Topic: Izotope RX 10's azimuth module

[Rairun]

I usually tape with cardioid mics mounted on my glasses, and my best recordings are from the front row (side), with one mic pointing more or less directly to the PA stack, and the other pointing to the stage more generally (with my head between the mic and the nearest stack). I find this is great in terms of capturing all instruments, but it does tend to create a lopsided stereo image.

Has anyone tried using the Azimuth module to fix this lopsidedness, by applying the "Realign to Mono" preset? I know it wasn't created for this purpose, but it's a miracle worker. It leaves the left channel unmodified and applies the processing to the right channel, so before applying it, it's better to swap channels temporarily if the PA stack happens to be the one on the right-hand side. Once processed, it keeps the stereo image (it definitely does not mix it down to mono), but it re-centres the music - it's particularly clear how the vocals move to the centre. It's really worth experimenting with if you haven't.

[ajprog]

Well I get this issue on some recordings so I thought I would try this technique. However when I apply the 'Realign to Mono' preset I can't hear any obvious change in the stereo image. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong?

[fanofjam]

I usually tape with cardioid mics mounted on my glasses, and my best recordings are from the front row (side), with one mic pointing more or less directly to the PA stack, and the other pointing to the stage more generally (with my head between the mic and the nearest stack). I find this is great in terms of capturing all instruments, but it does tend to create a lopsided stereo image.

Has anyone tried using the Azimuth module to fix this lopsidedness, by applying the "Realign to Mono" preset? I know it wasn't created for this purpose, but it's a miracle worker. It leaves the left channel unmodified and applies the processing to the right channel, so before applying it, it's better to swap channels temporarily if the PA stack happens to be the one on the right-hand side. Once processed, it keeps the stereo image (it definitely does not mix it down to mono), but it re-centres the music - it's particularly clear how the vocals move to the centre. It's really worth experimenting with if you haven't.

Rairun:

Some years ago, I recorded Galactic in at a mid-sized venue in Japan.  I was there on business and ended up taping on a whim...had no idea if taping is something that venues in Japan are OK with, so took my gear bag in without any idea of how I would be taping other than I didn't have a mic stand.  I ended up setting my bag down on the floor near the left stack which was also floor mounted.  I set the mics up basically in the same manner as you mention above in your message and honestly, as I was capturing that show, I remember thinking that the tape would make a nice souvenir, but I had low expectations for it turning out any good.  Well, it turns out that the Japanese really know how to turn up the energy because that show was the best Galactic show of the 30 or so times I've seen them.  And taboot, the recording actually kicks ass and sounds great.  That said, as you mention, it is a little funky because the imaging is way off.  Sounds like I need to go back and revisit this recording using this Azimuth tool!  Thanks for the heads up. 

If I do end up doing anything with the recording, I'll try to remember to report my results back on this thread. 

Steve

[Gutbucket]

I've an interesting technique I expect will work well for this, for Steve's Galactic recording, and for other recordings that are skewed strongly to one side or the other or overly separated or imbalanced in terms of left/right image placemetn.  I've posted about in a few TS threads over the years, but the one linked below one describes it in more detail and includes a link to before and after examples.  Feel free to ignore the posts about the technical details describing what's going on and just go to the end of the thread to checkout the examples if you like.

Re: Have you ever taped in front of a delay stack before?
^The post this link directs to begins the discussion of the technique. Later on the following page I post a link to examples hosted on my Gdrive of it being applied a few different ways, and believe those still remain available.  If not just let me know.

[EmRR]

Gutbucket’s concept could easily be tried in RX with the phase module, delink the channels and rotate appropriately.

[Rairun]

Well I get this issue on some recordings so I thought I would try this technique. However when I apply the 'Realign to Mono' preset I can't hear any obvious change in the stereo image. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong?

Sorry, I didn't see there had been activity in this thread! Can you hear the difference here?

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/0jtzbldvoploqp2/MJ_Lenderman_%2528raw%2529.mp3/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/p9xj62j7xogvckn/MJ_Lenderman_%2528azimuth_-_realign_to_mono%2529.mp3/file

I think I also applied some light EQ at the time, but not too much. The changes in the stereo image are all the Azimuth process.

[Gutbucket]

^ Likin' it. Much more balanced and involving to my ear. Nice work 

Cool music, sounds like early Ben Folds

[robgronotte]

I usually do the same thing as OP - I stand near the front but about 50% off center, and have one mic pointed towards the PA and one towards the band.  Depending on how far back I was and the volumes at the venue, occasionally one channel is significantly louder than the other.  But I just normalize (and sometimes compress) each channel separately so they both have the same maximum peak and then sound at least very close to the same volume.  Theoretically that could leave the vocals sounding too high or too low, but that's never happened for me.  I like having the extra stereo effect of having vocals more to one side than the other; it sounds more like it did at the show that way.  I'm really not sure why anyone would want to reduce the stereo separation, but I guess everyone has different preferences.

[fanofjam]

I'm really not sure why anyone would want to reduce the stereo separation, but I guess everyone has different preferences.

Well, for one because recordings with drums and vocals panned to one side are weird (and possibly annoying), except as you mention if you're trying to simply make it sound like what it did when you were there.  But if I'm wanting a recording to share with others and listen to over and over, I'd rather it have a 'proper' balance.

[robgronotte]

Does it really move the vocals to the middle but leave separation in the instruments?

[bmubart]

This is the result after Ozone 11:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ebWJwEMu06mMrPAuyueHTX2uEr5iaUJO/view?usp=sharing

[Rairun]

Does it really move the vocals to the middle but leave separation in the instruments?

I think it keeps the left channel intact and makes small adjustments both in phase and volume of the right channel. It is intended to fix phase incoherence and improve mono compatibility while preserving stereo information when you're working with tape. When you apply it to a recording like mine, the effect is what you hear in the samples - the main difference I notice is that the vocals perceptually shift to the centre, but other instruments change as well, to differing degrees. I do sense less stereo separation after applying it, particularly when it comes to crowd noise that was originally nearly hard panned, but imho the music itself doesn't sound more mono than it already did, just more balanced.

[EmRR]

Yep, it’s specifically for correcting for tape heads that were misaligned during a transfer.

[ajprog]

Well I get this issue on some recordings so I thought I would try this technique. However when I apply the 'Realign to Mono' preset I can't hear any obvious change in the stereo image. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong?

Sorry, I didn't see there had been activity in this thread! Can you hear the difference here?

https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/0jtzbldvoploqp2/MJ_Lenderman_%2528raw%2529.mp3/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/p9xj62j7xogvckn/MJ_Lenderman_%2528azimuth_-_realign_to_mono%2529.mp3/file

I think I also applied some light EQ at the time, but not too much. The changes in the stereo image are all the Azimuth process.

OK. Not been back here for some time so I hadn't seen this until now.
I can hear the difference in stereo image between your two files, just as you described. Also I tried running your raw file through the azimuth module in RX10 with 'realign to mono' preset and it reproduced the same effect. However when I do the same with my own recordings it makes no noticeable difference. So it seems to be something specific to your recordings that makes this more effective for you.

[ajprog]

Using the 'suggest' function of the Azimuth module to scan your files, it shows that the raw file has a time delay of 0.3 ms between the left and right channels.
It seems that the Realign to Mono preset is acting to correct this time delay which is what causes the change in stereo image.